Mascherano: keep or cash in?

[tonk]

In nearly 3 full seasons (first game 24/2/07), he's made 113 appearances, scored 1 goal, got 25 yellow cards and 3 reds. By my calculation, he's missed 3 European, and 14 domestic games through suspension (currently suspended for 4 games due to 2nd red card in the season).
He had a very good first season and a half, but last season seemed a bit below par, and didn't have a good start to this season.
I think he's contracted to us till the end of the 10/11 season, so if he has another 'iffy' season this time around, then would it be worth selling him for say, 20 million pounds assuming an offer come in? Or, if he's offered a contract extention but doesn't sign, off-load him to the highest bidder?
I've been wondering that if we sold Javier, then Lucas might step up to the plate and relish the opportunity to be the sole holding midfielder. This would also give us an extra attacking player (paid for by the Mascherano money?). This scenario would give us a more attacking formation without costing net money. The downside is that lose arguably the best holding midfielder in the world, and open ourselves up to shipping more goals.
I'm not sure which way I'd go. I really depends on Mascherano. If he wants to stay, he'll play well and sign an extension. If he doesn't want to stay, he wont sign an extension and get sold, or wont play well and get sold.
Anyway, keep or cash in?
PS I think my games missed calculation is out. Corrections please.

[anotherusername]

For 20 million? Absolutely not. But if there was a great offer (30m plus) then I would say goodbye.

Mascherano is a great player but I'm not convinced how much difference a world class holding midfielder makes (compared to just a good one like Lorik Cana) over the entire course of a season.

He will make a difference in the big games, against the big clubs... but regularly against teams like Portsmouth, Wigan, Hull, etc?

For most games, I think world class attacking players would be more important. So if the sale of Mascherano can pay for someone of that calibre than I think it could help us win more games.

[Tomarse27]

think he has scored two too?

[redexile]

Don't really want Mash to go but if someone offered silly money say 30 to 40m then I'd be tempted to sell provided Rafa got all the money and the yanks didn't use it to service the debt.

[OJW]

Hi! to all,

For me it's simple, if Mascherano "wants" to stay and is prepared to sign a new long contract then I say we must keep him as IMO he along with the likes of Reina, Carragher, Gerrard & Torres is an important part of the spine of the team and personally I really rate him as a player.

However, if he has made his mind up that he wants to leave then I feel we have to let him go, for the right price of course.

OJW

[tonk]

think he has scored two too?

I think his 'goal' this season got changed to an own goal.

[miller0863]

Every player has his price and his is any bid of £30m plus. Good player but we need the funds to put towards re building our left side and to get a second striker in

[red4life86]

Don't think we'd get that much to be fair. I think seeing as he is wanting away (alledgedly) and only has 18 months left on his contract then £20m would be more realistic. For me, I say sell and get a right winger in and play 4, 4, fucking 2.

[miller0863]

£20m is borderline, Rafa would have to have specific targets in mind that would make the difference to our first 11 and come within a very restrictive budget. Interesting that you believe we need strengthening on our right side than on our left.

[Swiss LFC fan]

Wouldn't mind swapping him with Essien! ;)

[Jenson78]

Javier Mascherano was once owned by Media Sports Investment, so maybe he is money driven,looking for the best deal going so when the likes of Barcelona come sniffing it would turn his head.
I thought he was going to become a world class player in his position, but not so sure. I feel a 30 million plus off comes in then perhaps let him go, or risk him doing a michael owen and going for peanuts. He cost a couple of million in loan fees and £18,600,000. I cant see the yanks going anytime soon so the club need the money.

[miller0863]

Well something's got to give, either he gets a new contract or he has to go.

[Redbrandt]

In nearly 3 full seasons (first game 24/2/07), he's made 113 appearances, scored 1 goal, got 25 yellow cards and 3 reds. By my calculation, he's missed 3 European, and 14 domestic games through suspension (currently suspended for 4 games due to 2nd red card in the season).
He had a very good first season and a half, but last season seemed a bit below par, and didn't have a good start to this season.
I think he's contracted to us till the end of the 10/11 season, so if he has another 'iffy' season this time around, then would it be worth selling him for say, 20 million pounds assuming an offer come in? Or, if he's offered a contract extention but doesn't sign, off-load him to the highest bidder?
I've been wondering that if we sold Javier, then Lucas might step up to the plate and relish the opportunity to be the sole holding midfielder. This would also give us an extra attacking player (paid for by the Mascherano money?). This scenario would give us a more attacking formation without costing net money. The downside is that lose arguably the best holding midfielder in the world, and open ourselves up to shipping more goals.
I'm not sure which way I'd go. I really depends on Mascherano. If he wants to stay, he'll play well and sign an extension. If he doesn't want to stay, he wont sign an extension and get sold, or wont play well and get sold.
Anyway, keep or cash in?
PS I think my games missed calculation is out. Corrections please.

Firstly, I am not so sure the money would be invested in a new player so I wouldn't be too quick to sell thinking of the income.

Secondly, first you talk about another 'iffy' season and then about losing the best holding midfielder in the world. So basically you're saying that he could play better but even so he is still the best in his position. If that is so, then I'm totally against selling him. If we wanna achieve anything, we must keep hold of our best players, of those who are considered the best or among the best in the world in their positions (Reina, Masch, Gerrard, Torres). We already lost one (Xabi), I'm not about to agree on losing another one.

On the other hand, if you're saying that he isn't playing as well as he could/should and that as a consequence he's just 'another' holding midfielder, then yes, selling could be an option if the right price (around 30mil).

I am largely against selling him, but obviously, if we get a crazy offer and Rafa has already identified a good replacement, we should trust the manager

[user name]

we currently have the argentine capitan as our 'pocket dynamite midfield general'... now he's been up and down for the last couple of seasons, but when he's on form, there's only a couple of players in the world that are as good...

currently we have 4 players that, if sold, the money would only allow us to buy a similar player... ( unless we bought a younger player with the potential to become great, that being a massive gamble)...

in conclusion, mascherano has to stay, he's gonna be a vital player if we are to rise again...

[Dids]

The odd half decent tackle,
a joke with the ball,
offers nothing creative,
loses the plot to easily.
Sell him, no worse of without him.


I said on another thread his four match ban will be good for us.
That will be put to the test tomorrow, has AA got any fight in him?.

.

[switchingoff]

If I was rebuilding the side, with say £200m to spend, he's one I would keep. If we get an offer of £30m ish, like already said, i'd let him go, with AA and Lucas, we can cover him. We need world class wingers and we have done for 3 years, so for £30m we could get one and another decent one.

[iwan]

Well something's got to give, either he gets a new contract or he has to go.

Really want him to sign and stay, he`s quality when he`s on his game, and if we were to play with only one holding midfielder he`s the man, but agree with the above.

[redsam]

Over the summer, I'd rather have lost Mascherano than Alonso.

As was already mentioned, the difference between having a decent player in that position and a world class one isn't going to make a huge difference over the course of a season. It's not like we play teams of the calibre of the top 4 week in week out.

However, I'd still like to keep Masch if possible. He's one of the best in his position in the world and if you want to build a league challenging team you don't sell your best players. If he doesn't want to stay then he can leave. Same for any other player at the club too.

[North Wales Red]

It would be a gamble to sell him halfway through a season with our injury record.

[Insidious]

Hmmmm. Toughie.

I like Mascherano and appreciate the "firefighter" qualities he has when it comes to stopping dangerous opposing play spread from the opposing midfield to the final third of the pitch.

Key question is just how much better is he at doing that than other central defensive midfielders?

And are there any other players who fulfil that sort of role but have better ball distribution in the attacking sense, to which one would have to say yes.

Like Song for Arsenal *NB* not saying he's a better player than Mascherano*....he does a good job of protecting the back four (on his own) yet is happy to move up the pitch and can play the odd killer creative ball. Even when he doesn't, he still passes the ball in progressive directions, such as forward down the centre or diagonally to the wings.

Maybe a more balanced version of the defensive midfielder like that would be better for us. Could Lucas be moulded into such a player in time? I'm not so sure, but we'll see.

I think if an offer of £30 million came in for Mascherano I'd take it, although, with today's inflated prices and his reputation as "best in the world" at what he does and the likes of Barcelona sniffing after him, I'd rather see that figure up to £35 million or so.

It seems inevitable that we might lose more games against the "Big Four" without the guy, but we saw from last season that picking up more points against (no disrespect intended) "lesser" teams as opposed to drawing with them is more valuable really.

Would you rather lose to United twice in a season and win the league? Or lose to them twice but win the league? Yes I want both too.....but you get my point.

If the Big Four looks set to become a "Magnificent Seven" or whatever though, you'd really want someone to be very solid in the defensive midfield role, particularly as more and more teams, including the teams being promoted from the Championship are grabbing their metaphorical buts and going for games at times. There just seems to be less fear and apprehension of the "big" teams right now, but maybe that feeling is largely down to the fact that Anfield isn't a fortress right now.

Would only want to see him go of course if the £30ish million was for us to use in the transfer window. What would people want to see purchased? Two £15 million wingers, one left, one right? A £20 million left winger and a £10 million right back (putting Glen Johnson on right wing)? Take it people are hoping to see 4-4-2 with Torres and N'gog/Pacheco up front? Kuyt, Dossena, Voronin and Babel sold? Gerrard and Aquilani in central midfield when going for games, with Lucas brought on to "see out" results we're holding onto (such as 2-0 up with 20 minutes to go)?

Very curious as to people's semi-long-term thoughts on the issue, as it will have an effect on many things for us.

[North Wales Red]

Can't see us getting £30 million for him if he was to go.

[Woodie]

It seems that most of the posters on here have a similar view on this. No-one can argue that when he is on top of his game there are very few better players in his position. For me the big drawback is that he doesn't seem to be on top of his game all that often of late!!! Too many silly bookings or giving the ball away........he has stopped dictating the opposition's game from the middle of the park.

I'm not convinced that Lucas is the man for this job either, but I do think that if we could get £20-30mill for him then we could certainly find another tough tackling player to fit the bill for a lot less money - and this would leave us significant funds to use for a second striker / winger that we so badly need.

[Insidious]

Can't see us getting £30 million for him if he was to go.

A couple of years ago, I'd have most definitely agreed with you.

But with the Manchester City/Real Madrid financial arms race, all the prices have been pushed up big time. So we might get lucky. Besides, the words "best in the world" when it comes to a player of ANY position always tend to help when it comes to price, so you never know.

Fingers crossed that if he DOES go, we do get that sort of money for him.

[dannykos]

i'd keep him every day of the week - unless he comes out and says he wants to go. Some on here said that we wouldn't miss Alonso - and I worry that we think we might not miss Masch - but I think ultimately, we would. So many times, in so many games, he just crops up at the vital second to make a tackle, and distribute quickly to the playmaker.

Offer him a new contract - and let's get the best out of him!

[ashfalt]

http://www.skysports.com/story/0,19528,11096_2705370,00.html
:rolleyes:

[RedNoodle]

Keep.

We are not currently blessed with lots of quality players and we can ill afford to lose ANY of them. Add to this the fact that there is no way on earth that Rafa would be given ALL of the money we got for him, its easy to see that selling him would only make us weaker.

We need to ADD to the likes of Mascherano, not sell them and replace them with inferior players.

[teesred]

Deep down we all know he doesnt want to be there so we should sell him BUT and its a very big but does this mean we are becoming a club who sells its top names and cant keep hold of them? Most will have heard about or read the weekends stories regarding torres if we dont finish in the top four ( I dont think we could have any complaints if it were true). In the case of Mascherano I personally agree with dids, he woudnt be missed that much in our current predicament but what would worry me is that it will be seen as another blot on our copy book, selling the argentine captain and a highly rated player (even if he doesnt warrant it half the time). For 20m plus the money could be used more wisely and would be common sense for someone who wants away anyway.

[North Wales Red]

http://www.skysports.com/story/0,19528,11096_2705370,00.html
:rolleyes:

We've had the same amount of shots than Man United but four more on target?

[fiordearg]

aquilani is only getting a run out and if we rid of masch that's going to upset the midfield balance. given our current financial woes plus worries about qualifying for europe such a risk could be devastating. if we sell masch we will probably buy a promising yet untested midfielder from somewhere mid-season for 10 million less to save money. we sold alonso, hyppia and arbeloa and it has cost us dearly especially in defence. why weaken our defensive options more? we should be trying to get in a striker and raise funds from peripheral players like dossena who will never make a difference for the team.

[dicko1969]

Over the summer, I'd rather have lost Mascherano than Alonso.

As was already mentioned, the difference between having a decent player in that position and a world class one isn't going to make a huge difference over the course of a season. It's not like we play teams of the calibre of the top 4 week in week out.

However, I'd still like to keep Masch if possible. He's one of the best in his position in the world and if you want to build a league challenging team you don't sell your best players. If he doesn't want to stay then he can leave. Same for any other player at the club too.

Erm what about Claude Makelele. Wasn't Raul on record saying the loss of CM was the reason they didn't win anything with galacticos.

Someone mentioned Lorik Cana, he will become a very good player in the prem.

Anyway, cash in on the fucker we don't need him and find someone decent to partner Lucas ;)

[dicko1969]

We've had the same amount of shots than Man United but four more on target?

Mascherano top passer and Lucas 87% accuracy. Do these two just pass amongst themselves on the halfway line?

[tonk]

Firstly, I am not so sure the money would be invested in a new player so I wouldn't be too quick to sell thinking of the income.

Secondly, first you talk about another 'iffy' season and then about losing the best holding midfielder in the world. So basically you're saying that he could play better but even so he is still the best in his position. If that is so, then I'm totally against selling him. If we wanna achieve anything, we must keep hold of our best players, of those who are considered the best or among the best in the world in their positions (Reina, Masch, Gerrard, Torres). We already lost one (Xabi), I'm not about to agree on losing another one.

On the other hand, if you're saying that he isn't playing as well as he could/should and that as a consequence he's just 'another' holding midfielder, then yes, selling could be an option if the right price (around 30mil).

I am largely against selling him, but obviously, if we get a crazy offer and Rafa has already identified a good replacement, we should trust the manager

I did say 'arguably'.;)

[redman99]

Cash in....need goals from the midfield, good tackler but looses his head too much and cant pass for shit.

[GarciasMuffin]

Deep down we all know he doesnt want to be there so we should sell him BUT and its a very big but does this mean we are becoming a club who sells its top names and cant keep hold of them? Most will have heard about or read the weekends stories regarding torres if we dont finish in the top four ( I dont think we could have any complaints if it were true). In the case of Mascherano I personally agree with dids, he woudnt be missed that much in our current predicament but what would worry me is that it will be seen as another blot on our copy book, selling the argentine captain and a highly rated player (even if he doesnt warrant it half the time). For 20m plus the money could be used more wisely and would be common sense for someone who wants away anyway.


Yes, I fucking well would have complaints.

I'd fully expect every player to stay and get us back into the top four considering that it is at least 90% down to them that we'd be out of the fucker in the first place !

If they did leave just because we finished outside of the top four then they have the wrong mind-set to play for us anyway and we'd be better off without them.

This of course is assuming that you are referring to Torres leaving if we don't finish top four, and that's if he even DID say any of this of course.


The rest of your post.....spot on !

[glentoran]

Keep. He's the best holding midfielder in world football right now. Captain of Argentina. Give him someone to take out of a game and he'll do it. Remember how he kept Kaka in his pocket in Athens..?

[scaton]

Good player, but hugely overrated.

Keep him, but wouldn't lose any sleep if he went.

[Thommo]

I'd love someone to explain exactly why he's "the best holding midfielder in the world". He's good, but he's no better than a lot of others. Makelele was far better, Essien can do that role better + some. Mikel is as good, Cana looks like he's the bargain of the summer in that role & Hamann was a better holding player for us.

[moe1971]

was very critical of him last season-lucas got most of the criticism whilst Masacharano's average,at best,season was ignored.
I think in recent months he has been back to his best though and is an integral player to the system we play under Rafa.Yet is still prone to bouts of absolute stupidity which cost us dear (yernited 2 years ago,fratton park etc)

I think Rafa will fight tooth and nail to keep him but I have a feeling that his head has already been turned.

[bjornebye20]

Hi! to all,

For me it's simple, if Mascherano "wants" to stay and is prepared to sign a new long contract then I say we must keep him as IMO he along with the likes of Reina, Carragher, Gerrard & Torres is an important part of the spine of the team and personally I really rate him as a player.

However, if he has made his mind up that he wants to leave then I feel we have to let him go, for the right price of course.

OJW

Is your name Alan and do you work on MOTD?

[Pip2]

Keep. He's the best holding midfielder in world football right now. Captain of Argentina. Give him someone to take out of a game and he'll do it. Remember how he kept Kaka in his pocket in Athens..?

did kaka put the ball through for one of the goals.....

if masch wants to leave then so be it, but for a good price. any truth that parker is co,ing our way..?

[user name]

hmmm... weird how he's perceived... maybe the way in which maradonna has lauded him hasn't necessarily helped his cause....

I believe him to be instrumental in our future success, not only as the holding midfielder but as a role model for the likes of leiva...

I'd go ( just a bit) further and make him captain of our team... he has posseses qualities that gerrard does not... namely, gargantuan cojones...

[Dids]

2 games into his ban, 2 clean sheets, 6 points,

[user name]

2 games into his ban, 2 clean sheets, 6 points,

hmmm... erm... coincidence? ;)

[proliverpoolfc]

no way should we sell mascherano, he's the spine of our team along with reina, carra, gerrard & torres, on his day he's world class which is why many big clubs including barca want to buy him, we can't make the same mistake with alonso
some wanted alonso to go but only now have they realised how we miss him, so doing the same with mascherano isn't an option, if he can find his form & become consistent he's worth keeping, i'm not anti lucas but the thought of him being a regular in the team if mascha goes makes me want to puke, lucas is way too average, he's just not good enough althougth he did play well tonight

[Treadmill]

2 games into his ban, 2 clean sheets, 6 points,

Im with you on this. Lucas isn't exactly the most forward thinking dynamic midfield player - and he looks good with Aqualani, a more forward thinking player. For me the obvious thing is for Lucas to be our holding player.

If we can move Mash' on for 25m or more then that money could be spent where we need it, on wingers.

[Rafalicious]

2 games into his ban, 2 clean sheets, 6 points,

Yes, this had crossed my mind. It will be interesting to see how we handle Spurs but if it's the same record at the end of his ban, well??

Every player has their price and, like it or not, we're not blessed with the funds necessary to go out and secure major targets without selling. If a big enough offer came in (£20m-£30m) and Rafa had a purchase in mind, then (reluctantly) I'd take it for the good of the team (I don't think there will be another opportunity to cash in on Mascherano).

[Bridgeman]

i want to say cash in on mascherano and use the money to by a second striker/left winger but the taught of lucas being our main holding midfielder doesn't fill me with confidence though i do think in two or three years time the guy could be better than mascherano

[CODE RED]

I'd love someone to explain exactly why he's "the best holding midfielder in the world". He's good, but he's no better than a lot of others. Makelele was far better, Essien can do that role better + some. Mikel is as good, Cana looks like he's the bargain of the summer in that role & Hamann was a better holding player for us.

Essien actually doesn't see himself as an out and out holding mdifielder, more of a box to box. He marks Gerrad well, but struggles against Benayoun I've noticed. I can't understand why you've mentioned Mikel. Makelele and Hamman were around a lot longer than Mascherano has been currently before they were regarded as amongst the very best in their position. Flawed examples.

Anyway, its quite simple. If he wants to stay, keep him. If he wants to go....

I for one don't buy into these Mascha wants out and that Barca at desperate for him rubbish.

[Ricky_Blowdeal]

Liverpool to offer Javier Mascherano long-term deal to deter offer from Barcelona
Tony Barrett

Mascherano is wanted by Barcelona
Liverpool are set to offer Javier Mascherano a two-year contract extension that will keep him at Anfield until 2014 in a bid to keep the midfield player out of the clutches of Barcelona.

Mascherano has been the subject of longstanding interest from the Spanish and European champions after Pep Guardiola, their coach, identified the Argentina captain as the perfect foil for Xavi Hernández and Andrés Iniesta, the attacking midfield duo, almost a year ago.

Last summer it appeared that the Catalan club were ready to try to force a deal through, only to be warned off by Rafael Benítez. The Liverpool manager informed them that Mascherano was not for sale at any price, even though the player appeared to have had his head turned by the possibility of a move to Spain.

In keeping with his policy of tying up key players to long-term deals, Benítez wants Mascherano to follow in the footsteps of Fernando Torres, Steven Gerrard, Dirk Kuyt, Daniel Agger and Yossi Benayoun, who have all signed contract extensions during the past 12 months.

Preliminary talks have been held with Mascherano’s representatives and Liverpool are hopeful that the 25-year-old will sign an extension to his present deal, which expires in February 2012.

Negotiations are also continuing with Pepe Reina, the goalkeeper, as Benítez attempts to ensure the services of some of Liverpool’s biggest stars are retained. Reina’s present contract at Anfield expires at the end of the 2011-2012 season.



http://www.timesonline.co.uk/tol/sport/football/premier_league/liverpool/article7045791.ece

[Red October]

I don't think it's rocket science, but you don't get anywhere selling your best players imho. Look what's happened to us since XA went last summer. Our hands were tied at that stage as Barry screwed us over but in any case we've missed him badly.

If Mash were to go, it'd be a big step backwards as well. When he's at his best, he's absolutely world class. Thought he was great at RB on Sunday. He's quick, full of heart, one of the best tacklers we've possibly ever had (bearing in mind that these days, you touch the player and it's a free) and he can control the ball and use it well. If he were to add a few goals to his repertoire, he'd be indispensable (I think he pretty much is anyway).

[Treadmill]

"One of the best tacklers"???

Sorry, thing he's had a lot of pretty ropey tackles of late, and picks up enough bookings to prove that. If he'd gone against City the other week you couldn't have argued against it. He still hasn't sorted out his red mist issues that we originally saw at Old Trafford. If someone offers us 30m i'd take it.

[steviegerrard1]

30m is no where near enough for Masch and definitely not, just hope he and pepe can sign deals soon

[Nineteenx]

Selling half of the best central midfield pairing in European football last summer cost us dearly, Mascherano is first class, awesome, and we should not entertain any bids for him and make sure we tie him down to a new long term contract.

[Devski]

If his head's right and his heart is with us then keep him of course.

Pip2 or whoever it was - the second goal in Athens went in after Masch was taken off. (Kaka throughball to Daffy Duck).

[LIVERPOOL6]

i love masch and really rate him as a player, although as a central midfielder myself i can see and support the people saying that a battling midfielder like him is less important over the course of the season than a creative passer say like alonso is. I honestly think Alonso leaving was a huge blow to us. He was one of a kind, is there any other player who is like him? anyways hes gone now. but the battling midfielder is less important over the season. I agree about Lorik Cana and i said at the time he would be a good buy. I dont mind Lucas but i dont really think hes ever going to be great for us. The question is would we be alot worse of by selling him and bringing in the same type of player just cheaper say someone like Lorik Cana, Lee Cattermole, or Gojko Kacar. And spending the money in other areas like maybe striker or the wings. Thats the question because at the end of the day its the results against smaller teams killing us than the big ones. If this happened we would need Aquilani to step up and be that creative midfielder or we would need to bring someone in because i feel the loss of Alonso has really hurt us. Maybe someone like Javi Martinez. But in saying all this i would be very happy if he stays i just love the little guy. Like i said if Aquilani can step up we could have a dynamite midfield again

--------Aquilani---Mascherano--------
-Maxi-------Gerrard------------Riera-

[North Wales Red]

"One of the best tacklers"???

Sorry, thing he's had a lot of pretty ropey tackles of late, and picks up enough bookings to prove that. If he'd gone against City the other week you couldn't have argued against it. He still hasn't sorted out his red mist issues that we originally saw at Old Trafford. If someone offers us 30m i'd take it.

And how much of that money would be used for a genuine replacement?

[Slowdive]

I am surprised, truly I am by how many people would be happy to see him go. I think he is vital to our team and I do not think any club would be thrilled to see the most successful tackler in the league depart.
I am also pretty sure that the lack of Masch would ultimately expose our flanks with both Johnson and Insua having defensive question marks over their heads.

The idea of just keeping Lucas is equally flawed as the amount of football played these days means a team will incur injuries. Lose Masch, injure Lucas and we will see AA contesting the ball in midfield. That would not fill me with glee.
I will never know what our season would have looked like if Xabi had stayed but I think it well illustrates the danger of selling key men. No amount of money, especially money that is then funneled into debt, contracts and basketball :P Is going to make me feel better about him leaving if he did.

I suppose if Rafa was guaranteed access to his full price tag in the window giving us 40 + to play with over January it might turn out alright. How ever as that wont happen it would be little short of a disaster and a sad thing to see one of my favorite players depart the club.

[billbobjoe]

No way would I even think of selling him, at what he does he's the best in the world. The sooner those yanks are history the better.

[PaulG]

The odd half decent tackle,
a joke with the ball,
offers nothing creative,
loses the plot to easily.
Sell him, no worse of without him.


I said on another thread his four match ban will be good for us.
That will be put to the test tomorrow, has AA got any fight in him?.

.

He was shit in the derby as well.

He's certainly no Lucas.

Some of you need your heads testing.

[moe1971]

I don't think it's rocket science, but you don't get anywhere selling your best players imho. Look what's happened to us since XA went last summer. Our hands were tied at that stage as Barry screwed us over but in any case we've missed him badly.

If Mash were to go, it'd be a big step backwards as well. When he's at his best, he's absolutely world class. Thought he was great at RB on Sunday. He's quick, full of heart, one of the best tacklers we've possibly ever had (bearing in mind that these days, you touch the player and it's a free) and he can control the ball and use it well. If he were to add a few goals to his repertoire, he'd be indispensable (I think he pretty much is anyway).

how did barry screw us over exactly?

[Red October]

"One of the best tacklers"???

Sorry, thing he's had a lot of pretty ropey tackles of late, and picks up enough bookings to prove that. If he'd gone against City the other week you couldn't have argued against it. He still hasn't sorted out his red mist issues that we originally saw at Old Trafford. If someone offers us 30m i'd take it.
I said when he's on form. He's picked up a lot of bookings for mouthing off too. Most defensive players pick up a lot of bookings. Goes with the territory. I'd love to see a montage of all his tackles. He makes it look easy. Just watch Lucas's tackles to compare.
I am surprised, truly I am by how many people would be happy to see him go. I think he is vital to our team and I do not think any club would be thrilled to see the most successful tackler in the league depart.
I am also pretty sure that the lack of Masch would ultimately expose our flanks with both Johnson and Insua having defensive question marks over their heads.


I will never know what our season would have looked like if Xabi had stayed but I think it well illustrates the danger of selling key men. No amount of money, especially money that is then funneled into debt, contracts and basketball :P Is going to make me feel better about him leaving if he did.


Agreed. We've seen the damage that did to us this season. We now appreciate, hopefully, what a key player XA was for us. There've been many other factors too, of course but to sell another key player would be suicide. We all said earlier this season that our defence was what was the problem as we were leaking goals like never before. Coincidence that we lost a strong player in front of the back four?
how did barry screw us over exactly?

I suppose he didn't but the whole affair did. He fainted that he would come here but then didn't and in the meantime Rafa had made Xabi feel unwanted so we lost out in both ways.

[billbobjoe]

He was shit in the derby as well.

He's certainly no Lucas.

Some of you need your heads testing.

You mean to tell me that Lucas is better than him, are you mad? He's the best player by a country mile at what he does in world football. End of.

[Red October]

think he may have been being sarcastic unless you also are. you need to use smilies lads! :rolleyes:

[moe1971]

I said when he's on form. He's picked up a lot of bookings for mouthing off too. Most defensive players pick up a lot of bookings. Goes with the territory. I'd love to see a montage of all his tackles. He makes it look easy. Just watch Lucas's tackles to compare.

Agreed. We've seen the damage that did to us this season. We now appreciate, hopefully, what a key player XA was for us. There've been many other factors too, of course but to sell another key player would be suicide. We all said earlier this season that our defence was what was the problem as we were leaking goals like never before. Coincidence that we lost a strong player in front of the back four?


I suppose he didn't but the whole affair did. He fainted that he would come here but then didn't and in the meantime Rafa had made Xabi feel unwanted so we lost out in both ways.


like when he told him not to bother travelling to the san siro because he wanted to be at the birth of his 1st child you mean?

5 months before we were linked with Barry.

We were the ones who messed him around.

[bjornebye20]

how did barry screw us over exactly?

He was desperate to join us but we couldn't afford him. We came back in for him the next summer and he went to City for more money.

Thus, with Alonso always leaving (lets be honest he always was going to), we had to look for 2nd or 3rd targets. Such as Aquilani, weren't we also linked with Cana and Cattermole?

[bjornebye20]

You mean to tell me that Lucas is better than him, are you mad? He's the best player by a country mile at what he does in world football. End of.

Well thats not true unfortunately is it. He is up there though and his form since injury/suspension in January has been superb. His shooting has improved, his passing game has been brilliant in comparison.

He is off the sort of class that as long as he wants to play for us he can. And with all of what he has been quoted as saying he loves the club and wants to stay. The only shit we have heard is from his agent probably trying to engineer him to get more cash, which you cant blame him for; isnt Masch on £35k a week? I would be heartbroken if I was world class and getting paid a third of what Wayne Bridge gets.

[moe1971]

He was desperate to join us but we couldn't afford him. We came back in for him the next summer and he went to City for more money.
Thus, with Alonso always leaving (lets be honest he always was going to), we had to look for 2nd or 3rd targets. Such as Aquilani, weren't we also linked with Cana and Cattermole?


given a choice between City and us I would say trophies were also a consideration in his thinking.

[bjornebye20]

Maybe that was a factor but I think Mancini will be buying a couple more midfielders this summer and I don't think Barry will be playing enough to say he earnt the trophies.

If I were clueless and from Sussex, like Barry, and was offered to go for Liverpool for £60k (right?) or go to City (at least an extra £20k) with a similar chance of trophies I know what I would pick.

[GMan]

i love Masch

with Masch running all around the defensive half and Kuyt running all around the offensive half

well, it makes us very tough to play against

time and time again, Masch is there to make that key tackle

and seeing him score last match was encouraging ... normally, his shots are well, a little off

and he's no Alonso when it comes to passing, but when dealing with danger before it becomes real danger ... Masch is your man

[RST101]

Absolutely 100% keep!!

If any one goes then it's the fringe players and he certainly doesn't fall under that category.

It's hard to replace quality of the finest kind.

[angelsanddevils]

Agreed. One of the few genuine top quality players that we have that would get into virtually any of the best sides in Europe. If we're going to move forward let's not start by getting rid of our class acts.

[North Wales Red]

Besides that do Barce really need a midfield destroyer as such?



I can't help thinking that Javier's strengths are best suited to our league.

[bjornebye20]

Besides that do Barce really need a midfield destroyer as such?

I can't help thinking that Javier's strengths are best suited to our league.

Don't think many people thought Pique was the man for them, nor Ibrahimovic.

[Red October]

like when he told him not to bother travelling to the san siro because he wanted to be at the birth of his 1st child you mean?

5 months before we were linked with Barry.

We were the ones who messed him around.

I don't follow; you're saying we messed around Barry or Alonso?

[steviegerrard1]

Ibrahomovic has been in really good form and anyway he's a striker so what has he got to do with it. What we do with the money (maybe buy a new striker) but the money could go to clearing debts.

[RST101]

I still say keep! 100%

He slotted in to right back against Blackburn like he'd been playing there all his career.

We must keep this player and all other players who are cut from a different cloth. We don't have many so the ones we do have we must retain the services of.

We must add to the quality we already have by selling fringe players.

[moe1971]

I don't follow; you're saying we messed around Barry or Alonso?


by saying we were gonna buy him then deciding we didnt have the money-I would say it was us messing barry around.

[JMcQueen]

The first time or the second time? The first time we had the money but Parry (of course) wouldnt sign off on the value of the deal. The second time around we also had the money but Man City offered far greater wages.

[Kop On Portugal]

For more than 30M he can leave Liverpool, but i want he stay! And most important is what the new manager say about it, because i dont believe that Rafa stay more one year, like i cant believe that Mourinho stay in Inter one more year, so, i think is better wait, but 40M was excellent offer by Mascherano, and with this money we can buy one or two good forwards

[dicko1969]

For more than 30M he can leave Liverpool, but i want he stay! And most important is what the new manager say about it, because i dont believe that Rafa stay more one year, like i cant believe that Mourinho stay in Inter one more year, so, i think is better wait, but 40M was excellent offer by Mascherano, and with this money we can buy one or two good forwards

so you expert on the matter?

[Red October]

by saying we were gonna buy him then deciding we didnt have the money-I would say it was us messing barry around.

Yeah, maybe we did. Fair point. Either way, from our point of view the whole affair has left us without the top class midfielder we had/wanted. Let's hope Aqua can blossom next season.

[ianlfc]

You don't be the captain of Agentina without being a world class player. There is times a Mash tackle gets as much a cheer as a Liverpool goal. You have to keep him. Only him Steve, Nando, and Pepe (and Agger for me) our the only world class players we have.