Michael Jackson poll

[Carvalho Diablo]

Inspired by Anfield Aura's Jackson thread, and the unsurprisingly contrary views it provoked...so let's have a poll and see how the numbers add up; for or against ?

[Ducatiboy749]

for or against what? him dying?:confused:

edit: I see now.

A legend in the music business. An alleged nonce thereafter.

[JONO]

Why ,what's happened

[GlassHalfFull]

Inspired by Anfield Aura's Jackson thread, and the unsurprisingly contary views it provoked...so let's have a poll and see how the numbers add up; for or against ?

Aren't you, er, like, supposed to start a poll when you start a poll? ;)

Haven't read the other thread yet but i couldn't stand Jackson, his music did nothing for more and his persona was just, well, weird.

[Carvalho Diablo]

for or against what? him dying?:confused:

edit: I see now.

A legend in the music business. An alleged nonce thereafter.

No, of course not.

Some people worshipped the guy, some reviled him.

Cast your vote (if you so wish), and let's see what the statistics say about the fella...

[GlassHalfFull]

Ah....

[Carvalho Diablo]

Aren't you, er, like, supposed to start a poll when you start a poll? ;)

Haven't read the other thread yet but i couldn't stand Jackson, his music did nothing for more and his persona was just, well, weird.

...errrr....:rolleyes:

[Lorenzo]

for or against what? him dying?:confused:

edit: I see now.

A legend in the music business. An alleged nonce thereafter.

Plus 1

[rixf666]

i would like to tick the box that says, he was a music legend and also a nonce, but there is no option for that.

[Carvalho Diablo]

Not wishing to hijack Anfield Aura's original thread, I'd ask all comment on Jackson be kept to that thread.

Keep this one for the voting.

That is all.

{Carvalho moonwalks out of the building}

[Carvalho Diablo]

i would like to tick the box that says, he was a music legend and also a nonce, but there is no option for that.

Sorry, perhaps I shoulda just given "For" and "Against" options.

Sue me ! ;)

[GlassHalfFull]

...errrr....:rolleyes:

I swear, the poll / vote thingy didn't appear when i opened the thread, hence the later "Ah....." post.

Any way, as i said, shite music and nonce.

[Carvalho Diablo]

I swear, the poll / vote thingy didn't appear when i opened the thread, hence the later "Ah....." post.

Any way, as i said, shite music and nonce.

Consider yourself pardoned ! :D

[Leviathan]

i would like to tick the box that says, he was a music legend and also a nonce, but there is no option for that.

Same here.

[GlassHalfFull]

Consider yourself pardoned ! :D

Cheers ears.

[hyva sami]

You're supposed to be inicent until proven guilty, as far as I know he was never found guilty.

Legend.

[redexile]

You're supposed to be inicent until proven guilty, as far as I know he was never found guilty.

Legend.

Only 'cos he paid some kids family a shit load of money.

[Ducatiboy749]

Only 'cos he paid some kids family a shit load of money.

Makes them almost as bad as him if true.

[Carvalho Diablo]

You're supposed to be inicent until proven guilty, as far as I know he was never found guilty.

Legend.

That is very true, but he did admit to sleeping in the same bed as some children...what the fuck is that all about ?

For those of us with kids, or nieces and nephews who we love very much...would you ever dream of doing that ? Rhetorical, cos we know the answer...so what's a fucking "eccentric" pop millionaire doing slipping between the sheets with other peoples children ?

And what's just as shocking (to me), what were those kids' parents thinking about ?!

If Jacko was truely innocent, and really didn't touch any of those kids up...then great, but what was he thinking by allowing himself to be placed in that position in the first place ? What were Jackson's family, friends and management thinking by allowing him to continue ?

A fucking gargantuan roll call of shame IMO.

[The Prince]

1993 child sexual abuse accusations against Michael Jackson
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In 1993, Michael Jackson was accused of abuse by Evan Chandler, on behalf of his then-13-year-old child, Jordan Chandler. Jackson and Jordan had become friends in May 1992, to the father's disapproval and concern. The friendship became well known, as the tabloid media reported that Jackson became a member of the Chandler family unit. Under the influence of a controversial sedative administered by Evan Chandler, his son said that Jackson had touched his penis.[1] Evan Chandler was tape-recorded threatening to damage the singer's music career,[2] and engaged Jackson in unsuccessful negotiations to resolve the issue with a financial settlement.[3] Jordan Chandler then told a psychiatrist and later police that he and Jackson had engaged in acts of kissing, masturbation, and oral sex, as well as giving a description of what he alleges were the singer's genitals.[4][3]

Jackson's home, Neverland Ranch, was searched, even though other children and family members had stated that Jackson was not a pedophile. Jackson's older sister, La Toya Jackson, accused her brother of being a pedophile, but later retracted her statement.[5] Jackson became dependent on drugs as the stress of the allegations mounted,[6][7] and canceled the remainder of his tour. He went into rehabilitation overseas, and began a relationship with Lisa Marie Presley. On his return to the US, Jackson agreed to a 25-minute strip search, which was required to see if the description of his genitals provided by Jordan Chandler was accurate. Doctors concluded that there were some strong similarities but it was not a definitive match. Jackson proclaimed his innocence, and criticized the media coverage. Jackson's friends and legal advisers took over his defense and finances, persuading him to settle the allegations out of court.

Tabloid reaction to the allegations were negative towards Jackson,[8] and complaints about the coverage included bias and accepting stories of criminal activity for money, and engaging in illegal activities themselves.[9] Public polls at the time reported that a large majority of people believed Jackson was innocent.[10] On January 1, 1994, Jackson settled a civil suit out of court with the Chandler family and their legal team for $22 million. Jordan Chandler refused to testify in the criminal proceedings, the state closed its criminal investigation citing lack of evidence, Jackson was not charged with a crime. Jackson's support amongst the public then began to waver, and Jackson's own career and image was significantly damaged, which became a recurring theme in Jackson's future music. Prosecution evidence from the 1993 allegations would also be used against the entertainer in the 2005 People v. Jackson child sexual abuse trial, where he was acquitted on all counts.[11][12]

I definitely didn't do it but have $22m anyway.

Nothing suspicious there.

[ger_ryan22]

He was a huge talent and born entertainer, of that there is no doubt.

I was listening to Larry King last night, he said he wasn't allowed to give the evidence he had at one of his molestation trials as what he overheard in a restaurant was just hearsay. Fair enough, I'd like to know what he heard, that too is a little suspicious.

[alinfarah]

What a totally fucking imbalanced viewpoint of some - for every allegation there was a counter claim; he wasn't convicted of anything - and for every black guy found innocent in American, there have been a hundred black men swinging from lynch's or gassed in US prison's innocent but guilty of being black. And is he the only rich man sued in the US on the half-chance that they might settle?

He was a weird man - but how many kooky superstars are there, or have been? He was the first black, global superstar who paved the way for lots of musicians of all colours. He broke barriers and raised millions for charities. So, if your going to piss all over his corpse - why not mention the good stuff as well.

[JONO]

What a totally fucking imbalanced viewpoint of some - for every allegation there was a counter claim; he wasn't convicted of anything - and for every black guy found innocent in American, there have been a hundred black men swinging from lynch's or gassed in US prison's innocent but guilty of being black. And is he the only rich man sued in the US on the half-chance that they might settle?

He was a weird man - but how many kooky superstars are there, or have been? He was the first black, global superstar who paved the way for lots of musicians of all colours. He broke barriers and raised millions for charities. So, if your going to piss all over his corpse - why not mention the good stuff as well.

You mean people's opinion's

[hyva sami]

Michael Jackson would never of coped with prison, so for a man with the amount of money that he had made $22m is not that much money to buy his freedom.

I don't know if he was innocent or guilty, but neither do any of us. He was a strange individual but I dont think he was a bad person.

What he certainly was, was a genius.

[alinfarah]

You mean people's opinion's

Exactly - Nick Griffin has a few of those as well - makes it alright then.

[JONO]

Exactly - Nick Griffin has a few of those as well - makes it alright then.

What a strange thing to say

[JONO]

Michael Jackson would never of coped with prison, so for a man with the amount of money that he had made $22m is not that much money to buy his freedom.

I don't know if he was innocent or guilty, but neither do any of us. He was a strange individual but I dont think he was a bad person.

What he certainly was, was a genius.

Think there is your answer

[matt72033]

http://forums.lfconline.com/showthread.php?t=86853&highlight=louis+theroux

slightly different attitudes to nonces when its not the king of pop eh :rolleyes:

[Carvalho Diablo]

Alinfarah : Jackson's race / colour is a bizarre and completely random thing to bring up mate...I don't recall any single poster even remotely making a remark based upon Jackson's race. :confused:

I mean, Michael Jackson ?!? It seems to me the guy was both black AND white !

It also seems evident that it was when Jackson was a normal, healthy, young black kid, that was when he made his finest music. To my mind, when he seemingly lost the plot, started becoming a plastic surgery disaster, and turning into a white fella, conversely that's when his music disappeared down the shitter.

Just my opinion of course...but since when has a persons colour become a factor when they choose to slip into bed with young boys ? I honestly don't get where you're coming from.

Innocent until proven guilty - agreed, but smoke and fire...etc etc

[hyva sami]

Think there is your answer

Not really no, like I said none of us know if he was innocent or guilty.

[alinfarah]

Alinfarah : Jackson's race / colour is a bizarre and completely random thing to bring up mate...I don't recall any single poster even remotely making a remark based upon Jackson's race. :confused:

I mean, Michael Jackson ?!? It seems to me the guy was both black AND white !

It also seems evident that it was when Jackson was a normal, healthy, young black kid, that was when he made his finest music. To my mind, when he seemingly lost the plot, started becoming a plastic surgery disaster, and turning into a white fella, conversely that's when his music disappeared down the shitter.

Just my opinion of course...but since when has a persons colour become a factor when they choose to slip into bed with young boys ? I honestly don't get where you're coming from.

Innocent until proven guilty - agreed, but smoke and fire...etc etc

Michael Jackson broke a lot of barriers - at a time when MTV refused to air videos from black artist - they had to relent for his work. I think a lot of people were very comfortable with the cute black kid because he conformed to the norm. A soon as he 'whitened' - I think it made lots of people uncomfortable - I have no idea why someone who do that. And I can't even begin to pretend to understand it. But it' a mistake to believe that he was less black - the colour of ones skin isn't the only criteria despite what the media might want. And so he did cosmetic surgery - look around at the circus - Stallone etc. the list is endless - so what - personal choice. The fact that his own father alleged abused him and took the piss about his skin colour might have a bearing on his reactions. And any allegation of abuse is just that...an allegation.

A tragic, talented figure - and perhaps killed by his doctor.

[Carvalho Diablo]

Michael Jackson broke a lot of barriers - at a time when MTV refused to air videos from black artist - they had to relent for his work. I think a lot of people were very comfortable with the cute black kid because he conformed to the norm. A soon as he 'whitened' - I think it made lots of people uncomfortable - I have no idea why someone who do that. And I can't even begin to pretend to understand it. But it' a mistake to believe that he was less black - the colour of ones skin isn't the only criteria despite what the media might want. And so he did cosmetic surgery - look around at the circus - Stallone etc. the list is endless - so what - personal choice. The fact that his own father alleged abused him and took the piss about his skin colour might have a bearing on his reactions. And any allegation of abuse is just that...an allegation.

A tragic, talented figure - and perhaps killed by his doctor.

Sorry mate, but I still don't get why you believe that Jackson's skin tone has anything at all to do with some people negative opinions of him.

Surely, that is only down to the persistent, and needless allegations of noncery, and that his music was completely cack, post Thriller...?

[Ricky_Blowdeal]

Lengendary nonce. But mostly nonce.

[Carvalho Diablo]

...oh, and the fact that this supposed "Super-dad" dangled his baby son over that balcony in Germany. Replete with stunt-towel, of course.

Imagine just how fucked up that kid might have become in 15 years time ?! Perhaps Jackson's death might actually be a blessing for the long term mental well being of his own children...?

Perhaps...

[alinfarah]

Sorry mate, but I still don't get why you believe that Jackson's skin tone has anything at all to do with some people negative opinions of him.

Surely, that is only down to the persistent, and needless allegations of noncery, and that his music was completely cack, post Thriller...?

I'm not suggesting everyone who has a negative opinion of him is racist. The vast majority of people's opinion is obviously informed by the media. I think there was media bias against him - baseless accusation - MTV? He was a weird man - no doubt! Do I think he was normal or a great dad? No. But there are a lot of worse parents out there than Jackson - too many. And my viewpoint is that a lot of people are happy to see a little 'cute' black boy with a natural rather than the mixed colour of a successful, rich, talented man. America is after all the country that had anti-miscegnation laws until after the war.

[kellysheroes]

What a totally fucking imbalanced viewpoint of some - for every allegation there was a counter claim; he wasn't convicted of anything - and for every black guy found innocent in American, there have been a hundred black men swinging from lynch's or gassed in US prison's innocent but guilty of being black. And is he the only rich man sued in the US on the half-chance that they might settle?

He was a weird man - but how many kooky superstars are there, or have been? He was the first black, global superstar who paved the way for lots of musicians of all colours. He broke barriers and raised millions for charities. So, if your going to piss all over his corpse - why not mention the good stuff as well.
sorry mate, but I have to disagree, Yes he was found innocent but so was OJ first time up!, You could possibly ask why these 2 were acquitted while Phil Spector & Gary Glitter were jailed (you could but I dont think you will)
Anyway I dont think anyone has mentioned his colour unless ive missed it
For me his music did zilch, I think he was a nonce, just my opinion btw, I also think any nonce is an evil twat regardless of colour or creed and thats why I'll rank him alongside Gary Glitter another evil nonce twat

[JONO]

Not really no, like I said none of us know if he was innocent or guilty.



He admitted letting children sleep in his bed with him

[JONO]

sorry mate, but I have to disagree, Yes he was found innocent but so was OJ first time up!, You could possibly ask why these 2 were acquitted while Phil Spector & Gary Glitter were jailed (you could but I dont think you will)
Anyway I dont think anyone has mentioned his colour unless ive missed it
For me his music did zilch, I think he was a nonce, just my opinion btw, I also think any nonce is an evil twat regardless of colour or creed and thats why I'll rank him alongside Gary Glitter another evil nonce twat



I find it hard to believe that this is even been mentioned to be honest

[Carvalho Diablo]

But there are a lot of worse parents out there than Jackson .

Sadly, with that I concur.

[alinfarah]

sorry mate, but I have to disagree, Yes he was found innocent but so was OJ first time up!, You could possibly ask why these 2 were acquitted while Phil Spector & Gary Glitter were jailed (you could but I dont think you will)
Anyway I dont think anyone has mentioned his colour unless ive missed it
For me his music did zilch, I think he was a nonce, just my opinion btw, I also think any nonce is an evil twat regardless of colour or creed and thats why I'll rank him alongside Gary Glitter another evil nonce twat

So the connection with OJ and Michael Jackson is exactly what? Spector killed his lover, Glitter was convicted of sexually abused children...and the connection between them is exactly what?

[Ducatiboy749]

So the connection with OJ and Michael Jackson is exactly what? Spector killed his lover, Glitter was convicted of sexually abused children...and the connection between them is exactly what?


...and colour has what to do with it?:confused:

[kellysheroes]

So the connection with OJ and Michael Jackson is exactly what? Spector killed his lover, Glitter was convicted of sexually abused children...and the connection between them is exactly what?
Firstly I couldnt see why colour had to be brought into it but as your op hinted at black people possibly getting a raw deal from the courts (can I say here that I dont disagree with you if you are looking back over the history of the USA) the connection was not necessarily between Jacko & OJ but with 2 people charged with child molestation and 2 charged with murder, 2 were acquitted while 2 were guilty, just think of the furore if the 2 acquitted were white while the other 2 went down. My point was that colour may not come into it anymore but money may well do so whatever the colour of that person.

[Ducatiboy749]

Firstly I couldnt see why colour had to be brought into it but as your op hinted at black people possibly getting a raw deal from the courts (can I say here that I dont disagree with you if you are looking back over the history of the USA) the connection was not necessarily between Jacko & OJ but with 2 people charged with child molestation and 2 charged with murder, 2 were acquitted while 2 were guilty, just think of the furore if the 2 acquitted were white while the other 2 went down. My point was that colour may not come into it anymore but money may well do so whatever the colour of that person.

...and the morals of the parents who took the money. Not saying they're right or wrong, each to their own and all that, but if he'd touched a kid of mine I wouldn't have stopped till he was hung by his balls.

I appreciate the kid can get a lot of therapy for 21 million dollars but the thought of taking his money would sicken me.

[kellysheroes]

...and the morals of the parents who took the money. Not saying they're right or wrong, each to their own and all that, but if he'd touched a kid of mine I wouldn't have stopped till he was hung by his balls.

I appreciate the kid can get a lot of therapy for 21 million dollars but the thought of taking his money would sicken me.
Couldnt agree more with everything you have put

[alinfarah]

Firstly I couldnt see why colour had to be brought into it but as your op hinted at black people possibly getting a raw deal from the courts (can I say here that I dont disagree with you if you are looking back over the history of the USA) the connection was not necessarily between Jacko & OJ but with 2 people charged with child molestation and 2 charged with murder, 2 were acquitted while 2 were guilty, just think of the furore if the 2 acquitted were white while the other 2 went down. My point was that colour may not come into it anymore but money may well do so whatever the colour of that person.

I think I've explained my opinion about the media bias and his colour. I understand your position. Spector is a very wealthy man and it didn't protect him from justice. OJ - another man and another case. The big difference between Jackson and Glitter was a conviction.

[Carvalho Diablo]

The big difference between Jackson and Glitter was a conviction.

I still don't get the adulation of Pete Townshend...wtf is that all about ?:confused::mad:

[JONO]

I think I've explained my opinion about the media bias and his colour. I understand your position. Spector is a very wealthy man and it didn't protect him from justice. OJ - another man and another case. The big difference between Jackson and Glitter was a conviction.


Still not getting why you are bringing into this thread though

It has not been mentioned by anyone other than you

People are commenting on whether they think he is a nonce, genius or a mixture of both

[Bridgeman]

I'm not suggesting everyone who has a negative opinion of him is racist. The vast majority of people's opinion is obviously informed by the media. I think there was media bias against him - baseless accusation - MTV? He was a weird man - no doubt! Do I think he was normal or a great dad? No. But there are a lot of worse parents out there than Jackson - too many. And my viewpoint is that a lot of people are happy to see a little 'cute' black boy with a natural rather than the mixed colour of a successful, rich, talented man. America is after all the country that had anti-miscegnation laws until after the war.

I personally think you're talkin utter nonce sense

[alinfarah]

Still not getting why you are bringing into this thread though

It has not been mentioned by anyone other than you

People are commenting on whether they think he is a nonce, genius or a mixture of both

It's in the thread because I think the comments are an alternative viewpoint and balance the overall negative opinion. Since your opinion - as well as my own - is drawn from the media reporting of his life. I believe a lot of the coverage was biased and generated
- from a country deeply divided by race (MTV reference)
- mostly negative.

Hardly controversial positions - media bias - I think we know just how the media can distort the truth in regards to LFC. A country that is unable to offer black people a fair trial; a country uncomfortable with the issue of race. It's not even particularly controversial that virtually everyone has a racial bias whether they know it or not. So, perhaps some people might want to temper their criticism if you can accepted that even some of what I have said is true.

[alinfarah]

I personally think you're talkin utter nonce sense

Really - how about this...the whiter Michael Jackson became the more successful he became. Who's the victim? Discuss.

[takefive]

Michael Jackson was definitely both.

I have no doubt in my mind that he was involved in some inappropriate behaviour with children. How far he took this, nobody will know. The pay off was suspect to say the least and for both parties.

He was also the greatest artist of his age and his popularity will never be matched. Behind Elvis and Lennon he is the greatest musical talent ever.

Just a shame the last twenty years of his life are largly irrelevant. Not one good song just a load of peace pipe crap that makes you want to vomit.

I thought ebony and ivory was bad but then Jackson totally eclipsed it with black or white. Just cringeworthy. Especially with all the skin bleach.

Still 750,00,000 records is absolutely unbelievable and will never be eclipsed. I never really liked his music personally but I have got massive respect for his talent.

R.I.P.

[Bridgeman]

Really - how about this...the whiter Michael Jackson became the more successful he became. Who's the victim? Discuss.

I don't know- maybe it's to do with people likin his music and thus gettin more radio/mtv airtime and hense openin his music to a bigger audience ect

[alinfarah]

I don't know- maybe it's to do with people likin his music and thus gettin more radio/mtv airtime and hense openin his music to a bigger audience ect

And yeah - Joss Stone, Lilly Allen, Adele, Duffy and Amy Winehouse are the best singers the UK has to offer.

[sK_yoda]

Music Legend. No one will EVER be like him.

[King Xabi]

Michael Jackson would never of coped with prison, so for a man with the amount of money that he had made $22m is not that much money to buy his freedom.

I don't know if he was innocent or guilty, but neither do any of us. He was a strange individual but I dont think he was a bad person.

What he certainly was, was a genius.

Think the same.

[Bridgeman]

And yeah - Joss Stone, Lilly Allen, Adele, Duffy and Amy Winehouse are the best singers the UK has to offer.

What the fuck are ya talkin about ? Like what is your point ? Are ya after takin a few pills or somthing

[takefive]

And yeah - Joss Stone, Lilly Allen, Adele, Duffy and Amy Winehouse are the best singers the UK has to offer.

Don't see what this has to do with the poll. Michael Jackson himself clearly had issues with his skin colour but I am not sure how many others did.

Off the wall sold five million copies around the world by 1981 and at that time Michael Jackson was still very much a black man. Racism was rife but this didn't and still doesn't cloud peoples musical taste.

I honestly believe music transends race. It is just about the only thing that does and has done for a long time.

[alinfarah]

What the fuck are ya talkin about ? Like what is your point ? Are ya after takin a few pills or somthing

Name 5 current female British singers with the as strong media profile that belong to an ethnic minority. That's my fucking point...a bit of phenomena that - the top five girls singing R&B inspired songs - all white (or maybe Girls Aloud). Or explain the purpose of the American music industry creating a Top pop 100; the US music charts the most segregated chart in the world.

It works both ways - a friend, a very good musician, not allowed on an album front-cover - guitarist for Mica Paris. Why? He's white, they were apparently a black band. Open your eyes..next you'll be telling me the black side-kick dude is going to make it to the last reel of the movie. And Denzel Washington is going to fall madly in love and get the with Sandra Bullock in Pelican Brief...:).

[alinfarah]

Don't see what this has to do with the poll. Michael Jackson himself clearly had issues with his skin colour but I am not sure how many others did.

Off the wall sold five million copies around the world by 1981 and at that time Michael Jackson was still very much a black man. Racism was rife but this didn't and still doesn't cloud peoples musical taste.

I honestly believe music transends race. It is just about the only thing that does and has done for a long time.

'cause the poll is shit. And it offends me. And it amazes me that a group of fans vilified by the media at every fucking opportunity, don't have the experience or wisdom to pause before drinking from Satan's poisoned font of sensationalist journalism. Perhaps at the very least look for some middle ground and accept that whilst flawed, weird and troubled - Michael Jackson might just mitigate more choices than 'genius' or 'nonce'.

And - fuck it - if no one else is prepared to step-up...I'll do it.

[Bridgeman]

Name 5 current female British singers with the as strong media profile that belong to an ethnic minority. That's my fucking point...a bit of phenomena that - the top five girls singing R&B inspired songs - all white (or maybe Girls Aloud). Or explain the purpose of the American music industry creating a Top pop 100; the US music charts the most segregated chart in the world.

It works both ways - a friend, a very good musician, not allowed on an album front-cover - guitarist for Mica Paris. Why? He's white, they were apparently a black band. Open your eyes..next you'll be telling me the black side-kick dude is going to make it to the last reel of the movie. And Denzel Washington is going to fall madly in love and get the with Sandra Bullock in Pelican Brief...:).

I see them pills are really kickin in now!
Leona lewis is one that springs to mind.(i listen to metal / punk so pop is not my thing)
As far not allowin him on a album cover will that happens , but thats the exeception not the rule and also what audience they appeal to and was he even in the band or was he just hire/session player

[alinfarah]

I see them pills are really kickin in now!
Leona lewis is one that springs to mind.(i listen to metal / punk so pop is not my thing)
As far not allowin him on a album cover will that happens , but thats the exeception not the rule and also what audience they appeal to and was he even in the band or was he just hire/session player

Not pills - yet - just wine. Sorry - I don't want to get abusive but you are talking bollocks. He was lead guitarist. And if it is changing it's because pioneers like Jackson, James Brown, Chuck Berry etc. pushed them back. And Leona Lewis won by public acclaim which is my point - majority of British people are not racist.

[kellysheroes]

And yeah - Joss Stone, Lilly Allen, Adele, Duffy and Amy Winehouse are the best singers the UK has to offer.

Fuck me us whities are in trouble then;)that is a joke btw
the above list have aboslutely nothing to do with this poll and if i could vote again it would still be nonce.
But can i just say Kate Bush is still the best this country has ever produced,
Dusty is still the best Irish soul singer and finally give me Beverley Knight over any of the 5 you have listed - guess what she's black and brilliant

[alinfarah]

Fuck me us whities are in trouble then;)that is a joke btw
the above list have aboslutely nothing to do with this poll and if i could vote again it would still be nonce.
But can i just say Kate Bush is still the best this country has ever produced,
Dusty is still the best Irish soul singer and finally give me Beverley Knight over any of the 5 you have listed - guess what she's black and brilliant

I'm half-in-trouble then - as I'm half-white :)
Above list has everything to do with the poll. Hopefully, for the last time, I'm going to step through this...real slow.
1. media propagates lies
2. America - which I'm mostly resident in - was and is - still segregated
3. music industry promotes white artists more than black artist - commercial judgement (demographics and income based) and based in racist attitudes (see list of girl singers)
4. people on this forum - who should know all about lying dog-shit media - swallow the crap they pump out
5. leading to a poll that reduces our choices (based on highly dubious sources) to genius and nonce.

PS Kate Bush is an alien.

[Bridgeman]

Fuck me us whities are in trouble then;)that is a joke btw
the above list have aboslutely nothing to do with this poll and if i could vote again it would still be nonce.
But can i just say Kate Bush is still the best this country has ever produced,
Dusty is still the best Irish soul singer and finally give me Beverley Knight over any of the 5 you have listed - guess what she's black and brilliant

Thats it kellysheroes
Don't take any nonce sense from him
I never listen to him so i don't give two fucks about him and so don't feel the need to defend a alleged child molestered, as far as i'm conserned he is a dirty nonce who doesn't deserve our sympathy but sayin that i can understand people who taught he was the biz when they were kids wantin to believe the stuff about him isn't true.

[alifino]

Thats it kellysheroes
Don't take any nonce sense from him
I never listen to him so i don't give two fucks about him and so don't feel the need to defend a alleged child molestered, as far as i'm conserned he is a dirty nonce who doesn't deserve our sympathy but sayin that i can understand people who taught he was the biz when they were kids wantin to believe the stuff about him isn't true.

are you pissed?

[alinfarah]

Thats it kellysheroes
Don't take any nonce sense from him
I never listen to him so i don't give two fucks about him and so don't feel the need to defend a alleged child molestered, as far as i'm conserned he is a dirty nonce who doesn't deserve our sympathy but sayin that i can understand people who taught he was the biz when they were kids wantin to believe the stuff about him isn't true.

Sure, ignore my carefully marshaled arguments and attribute my opinions to indoctrination at an impressionable age. I'll take, as meagre consolation, the fact that you're using big words like 'alleged' now. See I'm making progress ;).

[The Prince]

I should point out that the word under 'Alinfarah' means that he is mpervious to criticism. I haven't been arsed to read this but I'm agreeing with him.

You owe me a Tube outside Baggy's room.

(Secret handshake)

[kellysheroes]

I'm half-in-trouble then - as I'm half-white :) nice one:)
Above list has everything to do with the poll. Hopefully, for the last time, I'm going to step through this...real slow. not slow enough i'm afraid:rolleyes:
1. media propagates lies
2. America - which I'm mostly resident in - was and is - still segregated
3. music industry promotes white artists more than black artist - commercial judgement (demographics and income based) and based in racist attitudes (see list of girl singers)
4. people on this forum - who should know all about lying dog-shit media - swallow the crap they pump out
5. leading to a poll that reduces our choices (based on highly dubious sources) to genius and nonce.

PS Kate Bush is an alien.

I do understand where you are coming from but going back to the issue isnt it possible that in these "politically correct times" (god how i hate that phrase) that to be black may be an advantage re my point earlier about the 2that got sent down and vice versa. I personally abhore racism in any way and I am not trying to be flippant about this but I still fail to see why Poll subject seems to have been turned into a racism issue when Carvalho never intended it to be so.
PS If Kate is an alien, bring on the anal probe:)

[Bridgeman]

Sorry Did you actually make a point? They're so boring i keep forgetting what you're bangin on about

[alinfarah]

I should point out that the word under 'Alinfarah' means that he is mpervious to criticism. I haven't been arsed to read this but I'm agreeing with him.

You owe me a Tube outside Baggy's room.

(Secret handshake)

Some have the 'Skull & Bones' - we have the Liobians!

[kellysheroes]

And yeah - Joss Stone, Lilly Allen, Adele, Duffy and Amy Winehouse are the best singers the UK has to offer.
And can I add to my list
Ruby Turner, Sam Brown and Connie Lush
thanks

[alinfarah]

I do understand where you are coming from but going back to the issue isnt it possible that in these "politically correct times" (god how i hate that phrase) that to be black may be an advantage re my point earlier about the 2that got sent down and vice versa. I personally abhore racism in any way and I am not trying to be flippant about this but I still fail to see why Poll subject seems to have been turned into a racism issue when Carvalho never intended it to be so.
PS If Kate is an alien, bring on the anal probe:)

I'm going with the Chris Rock line to a white member of his audience - 'I'm young, black and rich and you still wouldn't swap places with me'. I'm sure Carvalho never intended it to be a racist issue and he's not said anything racist. But his opinion is probably informed from biased, racist media outlets who purport to tell the 'truth'. And LFC supporters should be in a good position to appreciate that just because they call him a molester doesn't make it so.

[Red_on_Silver]

Still not getting why you are bringing into this thread though

It has not been mentioned by anyone other than you

People are commenting on whether they think he is a nonce, genius or a mixture of both

I may very well be wrong, but if I understand alinfarah's point about race and colour, is the assertion that people's perception of public figures is borne from our sources (broadcast media, written media etc.) alinfarah contends that there was a media bias over Michael Jackson and that bias was based on colour and race. We know from bitter experience that the media (particularly the tabloids) 'brainwash' our opinions and cloud our judgements. Thus, in terms of the allegations if the media had decided that MJ was guilty and presented evidence in a way which made him look guilty, then it is likely most people would have formed the opinion that he was guilty.

To be fair alinfarah accepts that MJ was a 'weird man' but he does not believe that he was a paedophile. Also, again to be fair to alinfarah, I don't has said any of the forum members responding has been racist in their response, merely that judgement is based upon a potentially racist source.

[JONO]

It's in the thread because I think the comments are an alternative viewpoint and balance the overall negative opinion. Since your opinion - as well as my own - is drawn from the media reporting of his life. I believe a lot of the coverage was biased and generated
- from a country deeply divided by race (MTV reference)
- mostly negative.

Hardly controversial positions - media bias - I think we know just how the media can distort the truth in regards to LFC. A country that is unable to offer black people a fair trial; a country uncomfortable with the issue of race. It's not even particularly controversial that virtually everyone has a racial bias whether they know it or not. So, perhaps some people might want to temper their criticism if you can accepted that even some of what I have said is true.

It's utter shit though

My opnion on MJ is based on him admitting (notice that word) that he let children sleep in his bed with him 'and give them Alcohol .

Maybe you think that's fine and other's do and that because he was a genius in his field that's fine .If we were talking about any Mr Bloggs who lived down the street then i doubt people would have this great opinion of him but hey he did great things in music so that's ok

I find him dangling his child from a balcony disgusting but hey it's MJ so it's fine
The above is nothing to do with race but actions of a clearly disturbed man
I find Nick griffin a total wanker -Am i racist for this
I find Gary glitter a total wanker -Does this make me racist

Trying to bring racist bias in to this discussion is pathetic to be honest

[takefive]

'cause the poll is shit. And it offends me. And it amazes me that a group of fans vilified by the media at every fucking opportunity, don't have the experience or wisdom to pause before drinking from Satan's poisoned font of sensationalist journalism. Perhaps at the very least look for some middle ground and accept that whilst flawed, weird and troubled - Michael Jackson might just mitigate more choices than 'genius' or 'nonce'.

And - fuck it - if no one else is prepared to step-up...I'll do it.

Then why didn't you say!

It is shit (the poll) but it raises an interesting point because unfortunatley this is how it is and this is how it will be. Some people will remember Michael Jackson for one thing and one thing only.

I still have no idea why you feel the colour of his skin has anything to do with him either being a musical genius or a paedophile.

[kellysheroes]

I'm going with the Chris Rock line to a white member of his audience - 'I'm young, black and rich and you still wouldn't swap places with me'. I'm sure Carvalho never intended it to be a racist issue and he's not said anything racist. But his opinion is probably informed from biased, racist media outlets who purport to tell the 'truth'. And LFC supporters should be in a good position to appreciate that just because they call him a molester doesn't make it so.
yes we all know how the media distort things but lets say for instance that the Daily Mail tell us that Jacko is a weird paedo who should be hung while for instance The Voice tells us that its all lies and its a white media conspiracy, now both belong to the 'media' so, hypothetically like, which one do you think would be telling the truth.
A sick & twisted individual is just that whatever the colour or creed or even perceived brilliance of that person

[alinfarah]

It's utter shit though

My opnion on MJ is based on him admitting (notice that word) that he let children sleep in his bed with him 'and give them Alcohol .

Maybe you think that's fine and other's do and that because he was a genius in his field that's fine .If we were talking about any Mr Bloggs who lived down the street then i doubt people would have this great opinion of him but hey he did great things in music so that's ok

I find him dangling his child from a balcony disgusting but hey it's MJ so it's fine
The above is nothing to do with race but actions of a clearly disturbed man
I find Nick griffin a total wanker -Am i racist for this
I find Gary glitter a total wanker -Does this make me racist

Trying to bring racist bias in to this discussion is pathetic to be honest

You might find it shit but it's proven by experimental psychologists. Not just white people but everyone has racial bias. And your mixing fact and fiction - he admitted to sleeping with children but it wasn't sexual. Weird huh! But he was accused of giving them 'Jesus Juice' which was a baseless, unfounded accusation. I've slept with a few of might mates after a drunken night out in a hotel room -does that make me gay? He certainly wasn't normal and the parent's of the children are culpable.

But my point is - Elvis, Woody Allen etc did have sex with minors - hmmm - can't remember the outrage, the 'nonce' terms - go figure? Wonder why?

Yeah and compared to the kid who's parent beat them everyday, and snap their spine - keeping kids in a millionaires home and then stupidly dangling them for public is so bad. It was stupid - no doubt.

Pathetic - but can't say that your arguments have convinced me that you swallowed the media bullshit hook-line-and-sinker.

[JONO]

You might find it shit but it's proven by experimental psychologists. Not just white people but everyone has racial bias. And your mixing fact and fiction - he admitted to sleeping with children but it wasn't sexual. Weird huh! But he was accused of giving them 'Jesus Juice' which was a baseless, unfounded accusation. I've slept with a few of might mates after a drunken night out in a hotel room -does that make me gay? He certainly wasn't normal and the parent's of the children are culpable.

But my point is - Elvis, Woody Allen etc did have sex with minors - hmmm - can't remember the outrage, the 'nonce' terms - go figure? Wonder why?

Yeah and compared to the kid who's parent beat them everyday, and snap their spine - keeping kids in a millionaires home and then stupidly dangling them for public is so bad. It was stupid - no doubt.

Pathetic - but can't say that your arguments have convinced me that you swallowed the media bullshit hook-line-and-sinker.

:rolleyes:

[alinfarah]

So let's conclude - the boys who claim sexual assault are found to be liars in court! The Home Alone kid who defends Jackson in court is beleived amongst others... and you want to believe the liars! Weird.

Jackson was fucked up - no surprise there - but that doesn't make him a molestor.

[alinfarah]

Kelly - quoting the daily mail totally kills any rational discussion! Let's agree to disagree

[JONO]

So let's conclude - the boys who claim sexual assault are found to be liars in court! The Home Alone kid who defends Jackson in court is beleived amongst others... and you want to believe the liars! Weird.

Jackson was fucked up - no surprise there - but that doesn't make him a molestor.


This could gone on for the next 10 years

You think he was some great role model hero who was a poor victim

I think he was a nonce


Let's agree to disagree

[alinfarah]

Done

[kellysheroes]

Kelly - quoting the daily mailtotally kills any rational discussion! Let's agree to disagree

fair do's, lets knock it on the head:)
Just to let you know I used the mail just to try and get one extreme to another