If you believe in God

[Rushback]

does it matter what religion you are ?

[The Prince]

If you don't will He/She let you off for not seeing the light?

[The Prince]

Here's another one.

If I've never been to church in my life but am generally okay and a serial killer repents his life on death row for, say, the last five years of my life, who is likely to get past St Peter?

[hyva sami]

Here's another one.

If I've never been to church in my life but am generally okay and a serial killer repents his life on death row for, say, the last five years of my life, who is likely to get past St Peter?

whos quicker?

[King Xabi]

Here's another one.

If I've never been to church in my life but am generally okay and a serial killer repents his life on death row for, say, the last five years of my life, who is likely to get past St Peter?

The serial killer because he repents for his sins?

[The Prince]

So I can kill people and still get into heaven?

[Red_on_Silver]

Here's another one.

If I've never been to church in my life but am generally okay and a serial killer repents his life on death row for, say, the last five years of my life, who is likely to get past St Peter?

Everyone has to pay for their sins (major sins in any case). So repenting has value and will buy qudos but punishment for the murders will surely happen. God Knows Best.

If you believe in Heaven, then you must surely believe in a God. Therefore being OK isn't enough if your God requires you to show your faith by way of devotion, e.g. pray regularly, repent etc. Anyway, I didn't think attending Church was compulsory in Christianity. I thought that Jesus taught values were more important than blind devotion (I welcome correction on this).

[ohdear]

Lets be honest.Most people hope that they will get to heaven,if there is one, just by being a decent enough person throughout their lives.

It's probably more of a reflection on the company I keep,but me and my friends have never once had a discussion on relegion,not once.I can't really even remember an opinion being hinted at,and that's how I like it

I only know one relegious person,she's alright and won't try to push her beliefs on you,but every now and again she will let slip a comment that really fucks me off.Like if Queen come on the radio she will mention that Freddie Mercury was a great frontman,but he would still be here if he wasn't doing things that were unnatural.
I'm not even a Queen fan,but that really makes my blood boil and if she didn't have such great tits,I think I'd have a right go at her.You can bet you arse that there is a rule in the Bible that she has broken,but she picks out one's such as that to suit herself and what she doesn't like

I think that Agnostic is the way to go.

[Red_on_Silver]

does it matter what religion you are ?

It does and it doesn't.

If there is only one true God, as is the case in the Abrahamic religions (Islam, Christianity, Judaism); even Hinduism has a core which believes in one great God; then surely all the religions cannot be correct 100%. The core of all religion appears to carry the same message; it is in the fine details that religions differ.

If you believe in God, then it is incumbent upon you to research and discover which of the messages that are out there are his and therefore the one to follow. Maybe they are all his messages and some or most have been corrupted by men over the ages; then it is your duty to establish which of these messages remain true.

The message that remains true will surely guide you to your creator.

If you believe in God but believe that none of the messages are divine then it matters not what religion you follow. You will have to let your creator judge you on your intentions and your actions.

[RedRich]

Lets be honest.Most people hope that they will get to heaven,if there is one, just by being a decent enough person throughout their lives.

It's probably more of a reflection on the company I keep,but me and my friends have never once had a discussion on relegion,not once.I can't really even remember an opinion being hinted at,and that's how I like it

I only know one relegious person,she's alright and won't try to push her beliefs on you,but every now and again she will let slip a comment that really fucks me off.Like if Queen come on the radio she will mention that Freddie Mercury was a great frontman,but he would still be here if he wasn't doing things that were unnatural.
I'm not even a Queen fan,but that really makes my blood boil and if she didn't have such great tits,I think I'd have a right go at her.You can bet you arse that there is a rule in the Bible that she has broken,but she picks out one's such as that to suit herself and what she doesn't like

I think that Agnostic is the way to go.

:D That's done me :D

I feel your pain :D

[King Xabi]

So I can kill people and still get into heaven?

I think so.

If you are genuinely sorry for what you have done and you pray for forgiveness. That's what we were taught in school anyway.

[The Prince]

I'm off to the GMTV studio then.

[King Xabi]

I'm off to the GMTV studio then.

:D

I'm guessing you're off to kill Fiona Phillips then?

[RedRich]

I'm off to the GMTV studio then.

Hehe not sure if premeditating murder then repentance counts, but while you're there...

[Jimmys Chippy]

Here's another one.

If I've never been to church in my life but am generally okay and a serial killer repents his life on death row for, say, the last five years of my life, who is likely to get past St Peter?

This has been my argument for being an Atheist. I asked a church type about Myra Hindley who had become a born again Christian whilst in jail. I pointed out that after all she had done does she get through the big gates because she accepts God and had asked for his forgiveness. He replied "Yes". When I told him that I don't believe in an afterlife but had committed none of the big sins, would I get turned away even though I had essentially been a good lad all my life, he replied "yes" again.

Therefore I don't particularly want to go to heaven now as I don't want to share it with that bitch and countless others like her. I'll be happy being worm food down Waddington Road Cemetery (or floating in limbo for all eternity according to the same man).

As far as religion goes, fuck it. It's a load of bollocks anyway.

[Gus]

Lets be honest.Most people hope that they will get to heaven,if there is one, just by being a decent enough person throughout their lives.

It's probably more of a reflection on the company I keep,but me and my friends have never once had a discussion on relegion,not once.I can't really even remember an opinion being hinted at,and that's how I like it

I only know one relegious person,she's alright and won't try to push her beliefs on you,but every now and again she will let slip a comment that really fucks me off.Like if Queen come on the radio she will mention that Freddie Mercury was a great frontman,but he would still be here if he wasn't doing things that were unnatural.
I'm not even a Queen fan,but that really makes my blood boil and if she didn't have such great tits,I think I'd have a right go at her.You can bet you arse that there is a rule in the Bible that she has broken,but she picks out one's such as that to suit herself and what she doesn't like

I think that Agnostic is the way to go.



I'm not sure, but I think having carnal thoughts about a religious person is sacramount to you burning in hell for eternity. ;)

[Where'sHeggem?]

I've found in my own experience that those that purport to be "Christian" through their beliefs, particularly regular ardent churchgoers and fundarisers for the church are rarely anything but "Christian". Some of these people are so devout in their beliefs, that their actions towards others who haven't chosen this particular path has been very distasteful in the least and very "Un-Christian".

My own belief, for what its worth, is that you don't need to go to a specially made building (like a church) to offer prayer. After all, in the Christian faith, Jesus and God are around us and in us all, and no one individual should be cast aside just because he or she isn't a believer. We will all find out in time, every one of us.

Being a "Christian" in my eyes, is respecting and generally having time for others, loving those close to you, and doing the right thing, being a good person. And we are allowed some slip ups, you know.

I'm basically agnostic, incidentally.

Anyhoo, anyone used to watch Red Dwarf? Remember the newsreader from the episode "Better than Life"? A newsreader was reading out about a missing page found from the bible, it read:

'To my darling Candy. All characters portrayed within this book are fictitous and any resemblance to persons living or dead is purely coincidental'.

Always makes me chuckle.

[Rushback]

It does and it doesn't.

If there is only one true God, as is the case in the Abrahamic religions (Islam, Christianity, Judaism); even Hinduism has a core which believes in one great God; then surely all the religions cannot be correct 100%.


And as such, wars are started. God surely cannot be happy if this is the case. Dedicated believers and followers of his word, albeit slightly different, killing, and letting others be killed in his name. Does a man deserve to die because of his religious leanings? No, yet through the ages it's always happend

How can this be avoided in the future?

How is it possible for a Hindu to accept a Muslim or a Christian to accept Sikh, when each believes their God is the only true God? If a person believes another persons religion is wrong, then how can you respect that person, knowing that they are obviously blasphemous and doomed for an eternity

I'll tell you

To live side by side is the ultimate goal for the human race but whilst there are many different religious factions, it's always going to be impossible, which is why God created Football. It's the only mass event I know where I can hug a Muslim to the left of me, A Christian to the right, Kiss a Hindu on the nose and grab a sikh by the shoulders and shake him silly, we've just scored in injury time, I love you all

Thank God for Football

[Rushback]

I've found in my own experience that those that purport to be "Christian" through their beliefs, particularly regular ardent churchgoers and fundarisers for the church are rarely anything but "Christian". Some of these people are so devout in their beliefs, that their actions towards others who haven't chosen this particular path has been very distasteful in the least and very "Un-Christian".

My own belief, for what its worth, is that you don't need to go to a specially made building (like a church) to offer prayer. After all, in the Christian faith, Jesus and God are around us and in us all, and no one individual should be cast aside just because he or she isn't a believer. We will all find out in time, every one of us.

Being a "Christian" in my eyes, is respecting and generally having time for others, loving those close to you, and doing the right thing, being a good person. And we are allowed some slip ups, you know.

I'm basically agnostic, incidentally.

Anyhoo, anyone used to watch Red Dwarf? Remember the newsreader from the episode "Better than Life"? A newsreader was reading out about a missing page found from the bible, it read:

'To my darling Candy. All characters portrayed within this book are fictitous and any resemblance to persons living or dead is purely coincidental'.

Always makes me chuckle.

:D

Waiting for God

"And Cloister spake, Low I shall lead you to Fushal and there we shall open a temple of food, wherein there shall be sausages and savoury doughnuts and all manner of bountiful things. Yay, even individual sashes of mustard. And those that serve will wear hats of great majesty. Yay, even though they be made of coloured cardboard and have humorous arrows through the top."

That episode was quite poignant, The red hats and the blue hats

Lister.. "they were supoosed to be green!.."

[ohdear]

I'm not sure, but I think having carnal thoughts about a religious person is sacramount to you burning in hell for eternity. ;)

I'd best keep my Pope dream to myself then.

[Ricky_Blowdeal]

Dr. Laura Schlessinger is a radio personality who dispenses advice to people who call in to her radio show. Recently, she said that, as an observant Orthodox Jew, homosexuality is an abomination according to Leviticus 18:22 and cannot be condoned under any circumstance. The following is an open letter to Dr. Laura penned by a east coast resident, which was posted on the Internet. It's funny, as well as informative:

Dear Dr. Laura:

Thank you for doing so much to educate people regarding God's Law. I have learned a great deal from your show, and try to share that knowledge with as many people as I can. When someone tries to defend the homosexual lifestyle, for example, I simply remind them that Leviticus 18:22 clearly states it to be an abomination. End of debate. I do need some advice from you, however, regarding some of the other specific laws and how to follow them:

When I burn a bull on the altar as a sacrifice, I know it creates a pleasing odor for the Lord - Lev.1:9. The problem is my neighbors. They claim the odor is not pleasing to them. Should I smite them?

I would like to sell my daughter into slavery, as sanctioned in Exodus 21:7.
In this day and age, what do you think would be a fair price for her?

I know that I am allowed no contact with a woman while she is in her period of menstrual uncleanliness - Lev.15:19- 24. The problem is, how do I tell? I have tried asking, but most women take offense.

Lev. 25:44 states that I may indeed possess slaves, both male and female, provided they are purchased from neighboring nations. A friend of mine claims that this applies to Mexicans, but not Canadians. Can you clarify?
Why can't I own Canadians?

I have a neighbor who insists on working on the Sabbath. Exodus 35:2 clearly states he should be put to death. Am I morally obligated to kill him myself?

A friend of mine feels that even though eating shellfish is an abomination - Lev. 11:10, it is a lesser abomination than homosexuality. I don't agree.
Can you settle this?

Lev. 21:20 states that I may not approach the altar of God if I have a defect in my sight. I have to admit that I wear reading glasses. Does my vision have to be 20/20, or is there some wiggle room here?

Most of my male friends get their hair trimmed, including the hair around their temples, even though this is expressly forbidden by Lev. 19:27. How should they die?

I know from Lev. 11:6-8 that touching the skin of a dead pig makes me unclean, but may I still play football if I wear gloves?

My uncle has a farm. He violates Lev. 19:19 by planting two different crops in the same field, as does his wife by wearing garments made of two different kinds of thread (cotton/polyester blend). He also tends to curse and blaspheme a lot. Is it really necessary that we go to all the trouble of getting the whole town together to stone them? - Lev.24:10-16. Couldn't we just burn them to death at a private family affair like we do with people who sleep with their in-laws? (Lev. 20:14)

I know you have studied these things extensively, so I am confident you can help. Thank you again for reminding us that God's word is eternal and unchanging.

Your devoted fan,
Jim

[ohdear]

Excellent,that's exactly the kind of shit I'm talking about Ricky.

They have selected the parts that they want to and ignore the parts that will affect them directly.

Not that you can argue this with them as they are oblivious to facts.

I can feel my face getting hotter!!!.

[Where'sHeggem?]

Dr. Laura Schlessinger is a radio personality who dispenses advice to people who call in to her radio show. Recently, she said that, as an observant Orthodox Jew, homosexuality is an abomination according to Leviticus 18:22 and cannot be condoned under any circumstance. The following is an open letter to Dr. Laura penned by a east coast resident, which was posted on the Internet. It's funny, as well as informative:

Dear Dr. Laura:

Thank you for doing so much to educate people regarding God's Law. I have learned a great deal from your show, and try to share that knowledge with as many people as I can. When someone tries to defend the homosexual lifestyle, for example, I simply remind them that Leviticus 18:22 clearly states it to be an abomination. End of debate. I do need some advice from you, however, regarding some of the other specific laws and how to follow them:

When I burn a bull on the altar as a sacrifice, I know it creates a pleasing odor for the Lord - Lev.1:9. The problem is my neighbors. They claim the odor is not pleasing to them. Should I smite them?

I would like to sell my daughter into slavery, as sanctioned in Exodus 21:7.
In this day and age, what do you think would be a fair price for her?

I know that I am allowed no contact with a woman while she is in her period of menstrual uncleanliness - Lev.15:19- 24. The problem is, how do I tell? I have tried asking, but most women take offense.

Lev. 25:44 states that I may indeed possess slaves, both male and female, provided they are purchased from neighboring nations. A friend of mine claims that this applies to Mexicans, but not Canadians. Can you clarify?
Why can't I own Canadians?

I have a neighbor who insists on working on the Sabbath. Exodus 35:2 clearly states he should be put to death. Am I morally obligated to kill him myself?

A friend of mine feels that even though eating shellfish is an abomination - Lev. 11:10, it is a lesser abomination than homosexuality. I don't agree.
Can you settle this?

Lev. 21:20 states that I may not approach the altar of God if I have a defect in my sight. I have to admit that I wear reading glasses. Does my vision have to be 20/20, or is there some wiggle room here?

Most of my male friends get their hair trimmed, including the hair around their temples, even though this is expressly forbidden by Lev. 19:27. How should they die?

I know from Lev. 11:6-8 that touching the skin of a dead pig makes me unclean, but may I still play football if I wear gloves?

My uncle has a farm. He violates Lev. 19:19 by planting two different crops in the same field, as does his wife by wearing garments made of two different kinds of thread (cotton/polyester blend). He also tends to curse and blaspheme a lot. Is it really necessary that we go to all the trouble of getting the whole town together to stone them? - Lev.24:10-16. Couldn't we just burn them to death at a private family affair like we do with people who sleep with their in-laws? (Lev. 20:14)

I know you have studied these things extensively, so I am confident you can help. Thank you again for reminding us that God's word is eternal and unchanging.

Your devoted fan,
Jim

Yup, like that one.

Thats why to me, Religion or Religious beliefs are a paradox. Not to be confused with a contradiction, but a paradox.

People are entitled to their beliefs, and/or to follow their own paths. None should feel any less spiritually enlightened, threatened by the other, or be questioned by the other.

Personally, i'm not a fan of "organised" religion, but i can respect those that are bound by their faith. Each to their own.

Me? Unfortunately no one can give me strength, but myself.

[Where'sHeggem?]

:D

Waiting for God

"And Cloister spake, Low I shall lead you to Fushal and there we shall open a temple of food, wherein there shall be sausages and savoury doughnuts and all manner of bountiful things. Yay, even individual sashes of mustard. And those that serve will wear hats of great majesty. Yay, even though they be made of coloured cardboard and have humorous arrows through the top."

That episode was quite poignant, The red hats and the blue hats

Lister.. "they were supoosed to be green!.."


Hahaha. Forgot that one. Another great example (and good episode).

[captainred]

Everyone has to pay for their sins (major sins in any case). So repenting has value and will buy qudos but punishment for the murders will surely happen. God Knows Best.

If you believe in Heaven, then you must surely believe in a God. Therefore being OK isn't enough if your God requires you to show your faith by way of devotion, e.g. pray regularly, repent etc. Anyway, I didn't think attending Church was compulsory in Christianity. I thought that Jesus taught values were more important than blind devotion (I welcome correction on this).
Red, how about these suicide bombers who kill innocents in the name of 'their' God, where will they end up?
I am a Christian and haven't been to church other than weddings, funerals or births for ages.

[liverpool lad]

For me personally I try not to give meaning to my life ie Why am I here? etc. I spent an awful long time in my adult life asking why this and why that and it got me nowhere. I respect each individuals rights to beliefs or non-beliefs as the case may be. For me though the key to being happy is living in the moment and by that I don't mean being wild and impulsive. I mean getting up each day being happy that I am alive and meeting each task or situation I encounter with the attitude that I will do my best. I no longer look for a purpose to my life as though I was some pawn in a cosmic game that I was unaware of. I simply just enjoy the ride and try to do my best in any given situation. Now if there is a god that I am unaware of then I am sure they will judge me as I was taught in Sunday school or put me through any relevant procedure that there faith see's fit but I will not let that affect me now. I just think about things I can change or alter not things that are completely out of my control. I feel reading these pages and other debates that have cropped up on these boards that some posters are looking for answers that none of us can give. My advice just do your best everyday.

[Davide]

I've always thought religion was a way of controlling the masses. If you don't do what 'X' says you're going to hell. They use this fear to control people and run their lifestyles.

If someone commits murder, adultery, steals, is gay etc, when they repent does it 'get them off the hook'? If so, then what is the problem with people being gay if they are going to be forgiven anyway. Didn't Jesus supposedly die for all our sins - therefore are we already forgiven if we commit murder.

Which is the right religion as well? If you are Muslim does it mean you are wrong for not practicing Christianity, and the same for Christians not practicing Judaism.

What about in the remotest part of a rainforest, where natives are untouched by the 'civilised' world, where they have no concept of religion. Will they go to hell?

[Red_on_Silver]

Red, how about these suicide bombers who kill innocents in the name of 'their' God, where will they end up?
I am a Christian and haven't been to church other than weddings, funerals or births for ages.

These suicide bombers claim they are doing what they do in the name of Islam or Allah (God). However, they are mistaken if they truly believe they are doing it for either Islam or Allah.

First of all, commiting suicide is forbidden and you are warned that hellfire awaits those that commit suicide. Secondly, taking of ONE innocent life is the same as murdering the whole of humanity; therefore, the suicide bomber can await punishment for the murder of humanity. To the best of my knowledge suicide bombers are destined for hellfire, God knows best.

See my Thread, 'Terror Attacks' in Off-Topics.

No matter how angry or frustrated we are by the suffering of our fellow human beings, we are not allowed to take the life of innocents. It's barbaric, it's immoral and it's un-Islamic.

[Rushback]

RoS, i have to ask, You keep mentioning it's wrong to take the life of 'innocents'

Does your faith express it's wrong to take innocent peoples lives but ok to kill others who are not innocent?

in which case, could it be argued that in the eye of the homocide bomber, the western world is not an 'innocent' because of one mans (Blair) crime against a nation (Iraq) tallies to the nations (Britian) crime against a nation (iraq)

what d'yer reckon

[rixf666]

For me personally I try not to give meaning to my life ie Why am I here? etc. I spent an awful long time in my adult life asking why this and why that and it got me nowhere. I respect each individuals rights to beliefs or non-beliefs as the case may be. For me though the key to being happy is living in the moment and by that I don't mean being wild and impulsive. I mean getting up each day being happy that I am alive and meeting each task or situation I encounter with the attitude that I will do my best. I no longer look for a purpose to my life as though I was some pawn in a cosmic game that I was unaware of. I simply just enjoy the ride and try to do my best in any given situation. Now if there is a god that I am unaware of then I am sure they will judge me as I was taught in Sunday school or put me through any relevant procedure that there faith see's fit but I will not let that affect me now. I just think about things I can change or alter not things that are completely out of my control. I feel reading these pages and other debates that have cropped up on these boards that some posters are looking for answers that none of us can give. My advice just do your best everyday.


that pretty much sums up how i feel about it all too.

It does make me chuckle thinking things like.. what if the muslims are the wrong ones, they spend their whole lives wearing those things on their head for nothing, or same with the jewish view, little hat things and curly sideburns all for nothing.

Then i think what if they are right and others are wrong, could be sitting in hell one day thinking if only i grew my sideburns i would be in heaven right now.

it all seems like a load of bollox to me, as if god would be so petty over these silly things.

The views on religion in southpark are quite amusing too, probably a bit offensive to some but you have to take it with a pinch of salt..

They think the Amish(sp) people got it right, and are all in heaven, while chinese people dont have souls :eek:

[NeverOffside]

Can someone set up a poll for who does/doesn't believe in God? (I can't be arsed). I find it disturbing that I could be having a forum chat with someone who is a fully signed up bible basher!

[NeverOffside]

I'm not sure, but I think having carnal thoughts about a religious person is sacramount to you burning in hell for eternity. ;)

sacramount? SACRAMOUNT???

is that like tantamount to sacrosanct?

;)

[Red_on_Silver]

RoS, i have to ask, You keep mentioning it's wrong to take the life of 'innocents'

Does your faith express it's wrong to take innocent peoples lives but ok to kill others who are not innocent?

in which case, could it be argued that in the eye of the homocide bomber, the western world is not an 'innocent' because of one mans (Blair) crime against a nation (Iraq) tallies to the nations (Britian) crime against a nation (iraq)

what d'yer reckon

First of all, it is not for us humans to decide who is innocent or who is not. The premise must be that everyone is innocent. God will decide who is innocent and who is guilty.

Now there are defined group of people who are not innocents, murderers for example. However, again it is not for me to decide that a person is a murderer; they must be brought before a Court and undergo a fair judicial process. If the sentence is death, then it is in this context a life can be taken. However, Islam much prefers mercy over revenge and the victim or victim's family views are paramount, even in the cases of murder, therefore, a death sentence for murder is not a formality.

[hyva sami]

Can someone set up a poll for who does/doesn't believe in God? (I can't be arsed). I find it disturbing that I could be having a forum chat with someone who is a fully signed up bible basher!

well you can still speak to me.

obviously dont feel like you have to, just thought i'd let you know your safe here i wont be getting you to join any cults.

[Red_on_Silver]

Can someone set up a poll for who does/doesn't believe in God? (I can't be arsed). I find it disturbing that I could be having a forum chat with someone who is a fully signed up bible basher!

I am not a Bible basher or even a Quran basher for that matter so I hope you can still 'talk' to me.

Seriously though we must be able to debate any issues. Even if you vehemently disagree with everything I say, I can respect your views. You will not believe the heated arguments that I can get into with my closest friends about all sorts of issues, including the colour of socks (don't ask), but at the end of the day we respect each other, we care for each other and we will always be there for each other. Hey, one of my closest friend is a Chelsea supporter, another is a Manc supporter but that doesn't matter in the greater scheme of things.

[Rushback]

cheers RoS

whilst we're on it, what is it with those socks that have individual sachets, almost like gloves for feet?

They're gross ! And why do they have to make them so bright sometimes, it's almost like they're trying to catch my eye and make me retch


Ban them all

[rixf666]

what if a police officer or someone in the army etc.. is ordered to kill a suspect or criminal or enemy.

if that criminal has done nothing to the police officer, then the police officer has no right to take another life, especially if that person has done nothing personally to them.

does this mean the police officer will go to hell, or does the "just following orders" statement cover their arses with god as well. :confused:

[captainred]

what if a police officer or someone in the army etc.. is ordered to kill a suspect or criminal or enemy.

if that criminal has done nothing to the police officer, then the police officer has no right to take another life, especially if that person has done nothing personally to them.

does this mean the police officer will go to hell, or does the "just following orders" statement cover their arses with god as well. :confused:
I was thinking the same sort of thing. You get muslim soldiers don't you? Like the ones in Iraq, who actively seek out and sometimes kill insurgents. Is that not muslim killing muslim? I agree with what they are doing, but must cause some problems with their religion, doesn't it?

[Taylor]

Humans are animals with no more value than any other species, be it an Orang Utan, a snake or a beetle - we have all evolved from single celled organisms, and just because we have evolved the most developed brains with cognitive thought, it does not mean we are more important. Why then should the human animals have a God? Why don't the insects, or the birds?

If there was a God, who created all life, would it not follow that all animals would be aware of their maker? It seems completely illogical to say that God made all the animals, but only humans have any awareness of this. And why would God only place value on the animals that could talk?

It's a complete fabrication, borne out of the need for humans to feel that there is more to life than what we have. It's a common need to most humans, and that is why this myth has grown in every society - the particulars are different (Allah, God, Buddha, etc) because they've all come from the brains of different people in different parts of the globe, but the sentiment is the same, that there is an all-powerful being that will give us ever-lasting life once our bodies have packed in. Everlasting life? In a Utopia on some hidden plane of existence? Where everything is perfect, and depending on which route you came, there could be 20 virgins offering themselves to you? Really? Does that not sound ridiculous?

There is no God. There is no meaning of life. It's the culmination of chemistry and random events that we are here, no more no less. But that doesn't have to be a bad thing - there is so much on the planet to be amazed by, and to make your existence a happy one that this notion of religion and the need for everlasting life is not required.

[red raw]

Humans are animals with no more value than any other species, be it an Orang Utan, a snake or a beetle - we have all evolved from single celled organisms, and just because we have evolved the most developed brains with cognitive thought, it does not mean we are more important. Why then should the human animals have a God? Why don't the insects, or the birds?

If there was a God, who created all life, would it not follow that all animals would be aware of their maker? It seems completely illogical to say that God made all the animals, but only humans have any awareness of this. And why would God only place value on the animals that could talk?

It's a complete fabrication, borne out of the need for humans to feel that there is more to life than what we have. It's a common need to most humans, and that is why this myth has grown in every society - the particulars are different (Allah, God, Buddha, etc) because they've all come from the brains of different people in different parts of the globe, but the sentiment is the same, that there is an all-powerful being that will give us ever-lasting life once our bodies have packed in. Everlasting life? In a Utopia on some hidden plane of existence? Where everything is perfect, and depending on which route you came, there could be 20 virgins offering themselves to you? Really? Does that not sound ridiculous?

There is no God. There is no meaning of life. It's the culmination of chemistry and random events that we are here, no more no less. But that doesn't have to be a bad thing - there is so much on the planet to be amazed by, and to make your existence a happy one that this notion of religion and the need for everlasting life is not required.

I can't believe I'm writing this... but that is almost exactly what I would say about the whole issue.

The only thing I would add is that I personally feel we are part of a much larger cosmic system and it is understandable that Humans "get the feeling" we are part of some master plan.

I do believe in fate

I do believe in luck

I do believe in a "Message"

and I do feel that things happen for a reason and we are being tested in some sort of "Live & Learn" format, maybe for some sort of "Second Life" as it were...

...but I don't label this Religion. I don't believe in God. I don't prey, nor do I feel I should seek forgiveness of a sin. I believe I am here for a reason, I don't care what others groups believe.

The problem with religion is the "My God can kick Your God's Ass" attitude.

[AllezLesRouges]

I do believe in a "Message"



Uh uh uh uh uh

[Taylor]

I can't believe I'm writing this... but that is almost exactly what I would say about the whole issue.

The only thing I would add is that I personally feel we are part of a much larger cosmic system and it is understandable that Humans "get the feeling" we are part of some master plan.

I do believe in fate

I do believe in luck

I do believe in a "Message"

and I do feel that things happen for a reason and we are being tested in some sort of "Live & Learn" format, maybe for some sort of "Second Life" as it were...


But is fate not a complete cop-out? Whatever the outcome of a situation, you can play the fate card. A man crashes his car and dies - that's fate. A man crashes his car and lives - that's fate. Well, actually it's not fate, it's the result of a number of factors such as speed, angle of impact and safety features on the vehicle. To me 'fate' seems like a convenient label to stick on anything.

Luck is not real. There is no bad luck, or good luck, there are just eventualities. If I am walking under a ladder and someone drops a hod of bricks - and it misses - that's not good luck. Well, I've been 'lucky' not to have been killed, but the turn of events occurred simply because someone dropped some bricks at the same time I subconsciously (probably) decided to walk underneath that ladder. It's a coincidence, completely uncontrolled by anything other than the incompetence of the brickie and gravity.

If someone wins the lottery, they are 'lucky' in that they've been given a load of cash for nothing, but the reason their numbers came out isn't subject to any laws of luck. It's a random act.

This message you believe in - is that not a contradiction of your agreement with my post? On the one hand you say that you agree that humans are no more special than animals, and that belief in a supreme being is borne from the fear that we only have a finite time on earth, yet you then say that we are all part of a greater plan. You may be right, but to me there is no plan. Only a fool would create a plan that took billions of years to execute. Setting light to a firework to see an explosion, that's a plan. Putting chemicals in a test tube and waiting billions of years to see how far a species can evolve is a fucking waste of funding.

[red raw]

But is fate not a complete cop-out? Whatever the outcome of a situation, you can play the fate card. A man crashes his car and dies - that's fate. A man crashes his car and lives - that's fate. Well, actually it's not fate, it's the result of a number of factors such as speed, angle of impact and safety features on the vehicle. To me 'fate' seems like a convenient label to stick on anything.

Luck is not real. There is no bad luck, or good luck, there are just eventualities. If I am walking under a ladder and someone drops a hod of bricks - and it misses - that's not good luck. Well, I've been 'lucky' not to have been killed, but the turn of events occurred simply because someone dropped some bricks at the same time I subconsciously (probably) decided to walk underneath that ladder. It's a coincidence, completely uncontrolled by anything other than the incompetence of the brickie and gravity.

If someone wins the lottery, they are 'lucky' in that they've been given a load of cash for nothing, but the reason their numbers came out isn't subject to any laws of luck. It's a random act.

This message you believe in - is that not a contradiction of your agreement with my post? On the one hand you say that you agree that humans are no more special than animals, and that belief in a supreme being is borne from the fear that we only have a finite time on earth, yet you then say that we are all part of a greater plan. You may be right, but to me there is no plan. Only a fool would create a plan that took billions of years to execute. Setting light to a firework to see an explosion, that's a plan. Putting chemicals in a test tube and waiting billions of years to see how far a species can evolve is a fucking waste of funding.

I'm open to the concepts, but not 100% convinced by them.

I'm not naive enough to assume that we know everything and it can all be explained by Science.

Like I said, I'm not religious. I don't follow commandments or religious laws. I have my own choices and boundaries.

I do feel that every animal serves a purpose (to existance) and therefore is equal in terms of it's creation/evolving.

I just don't feel that being Human means I know more about the planet or universe than an animal, therefore as oblivious a Tiger is to setting my DVD recorder, I am maybe oblivious to something in the Universe beyond our intelligence.

It's possible that we are not the highest form of intelligent life, so therefore if you truelly believe in the "Science" of your answer, then theoretically you must also hypotenise the idea that there is more than what we know.

[Taylor]

I'm open to the concepts, but not 100% convinced by them.

I'm not naive enough to assume that we know everything and it can all be explained by Science.

Like I said, I'm not religious. I don't follow commandments or religious laws. I have my own choices and boundaries.

I do feel that every animal serves a purpose (to existance) and therefore is equal in terms of it's creation/evolving.

I believe the opposite, that every animal serves no purpose. We're just here.

I just don't feel that being Human means I know more about the planet or universe than an animal, therefore as oblivious a Tiger is to setting my DVD recorder, I am maybe oblivious to something in the Universe beyond our intelligence.

But you do know more about the planet and the universe than an 'animal'.

It's possible that we are not the highest form of intelligent life, so therefore if you truelly believe in the "Science" of your answer, then theoretically you must also hypotenise the idea that there is more than what we know.

I don't think science is the answer - believing in science is as much an act of faith a believing in God. But on this topic I'm not actually looking for an answer, because I don't really see a question. You live, you reproduce, you die - what's to question? Why does life need a meaning?

[Ricky_Blowdeal]

You live, you reproduce, you die - what's to question? Why does life need a meaning?

The answer to the meaning of life, well thats easy - its 42. The problem is no one knows the question.

[Red_on_Silver]

I was thinking the same sort of thing. You get muslim soldiers don't you? Like the ones in Iraq, who actively seek out and sometimes kill insurgents. Is that not muslim killing muslim? I agree with what they are doing, but must cause some problems with their religion, doesn't it?

No, it is not acceptable to seek out and kill. There are strict rules of engagement/rules of war laid down for Muslims in the Quran. Clearly in a war/conflict, you are going to kill or be killed. This is not the same as seeking out your enemy and 'killing them in cold blood'. In fact the the Quran commands that you should fight your enemies on the battlefield as long as they fight you but if they surrender, your duty is to protect them; you must escort them away from the battlefield to a place of safety (even if your own life is at risk). Furthermore, the early Muslims freed their Prisoners of War in exchange for them teaching Muslim children to read.

[CODE RED]

that pretty much sums up how i feel about it all too.

It does make me chuckle thinking things like.. what if the muslims are the wrong ones, they spend their whole lives wearing those things on their head for nothing, or same with the jewish view, little hat things and curly sideburns all for nothing.

Then i think what if they are right and others are wrong, could be sitting in hell one day thinking if only i grew my sideburns i would be in heaven right now.

it all seems like a load of bollox to me, as if god would be so petty over these silly things.

The views on religion in southpark are quite amusing too, probably a bit offensive to some but you have to take it with a pinch of salt..

They think the Amish(sp) people got it right, and are all in heaven, while chinese people dont have souls :eek:


Gosh I love how simple you think the whole thing is. That made me "chuckle".

F#ck faith in Anfield, Liverpool FC and football. "Its all bollox" anyway. I'm off to the offices of The Guardian, Radio four and Channel Four. Busy day ahead for me.

[jeeta]

interesting views from those who believe and those who don't, personally for me religion isn't about whose is better, or who has the correct god, i believe in many aspects which can be classed as day to day occurence, the "you sow what you reap" is probably the one thing we all accept, you do a crime and get caught, you will end up in the nick, you sowed what you reap, the question in reference to those who repent on death row is a complex one but the obvious answer is "faced will death many will sell our soul to the devil if it saves us" due to our nature of wanting to live. So repentence when faced with death is admirable but cannot be compared to those who lead their lives in truthful manner.

Many religions believe in many charcteristics of a good human, even if you don't believe in GOD and the "whole what happens when I die" theory, being a good human should take you somewhere good. I think many would agree that death isn't the end, though scienctists would have you believe everything can be created and destroyed in their labs, but what amazes me is the continous revealtions that science keep's finding, the recent one about parkinson's disease and how they can use spinal cord fluid etc, might have the details wrong but it does seem the body has many many many secrets which are being revealed over the course of time. Who put them there in the first place ????

Live and let live !!!!

[rixf666]

Gosh I love how simple you think the whole thing is. That made me "chuckle".

F#ck faith in Anfield, Liverpool FC and football. "Its all bollox" anyway. I'm off to the offices of The Guardian, Radio four and Channel Four. Busy day ahead for me.

not sure what you're getting at here, hope i didnt offend you though, or anyone else for that matter.

i think life is pretty special and if you die, you die... game over. makes me think twice about even splatting flies these days, doesnt matter how unimportant you think it is, the fly still has only one life and it is so easy to kill it and not be bothered, but if you were that fly and got splatted, then it is a pretty important life to yourself. i could be killed in a car accident tomorrow and that would be it, so if i came back as a fly or insect etc.. i would like to think i have as much right to this one life i have as anything or anyone else.

sorry if that doesnt make much sense, had a few beers at lunchtime, but i know what im getting at.:confused:

[Where'sHeggem?]

Its a phrase from a film, but its always been similar to my own train of thought on such matters:

"Sometimes I wonder if God will ever forgive us for what we’ve done to each other. Then I look around and realize God left this place a long time ago."

Can't help but thing we are all on our own, really.

[The Prince]

I believe the opposite, that every animal serves no purpose. We're just here.


But you do know more about the planet and the universe than an 'animal'.


I don't think science is the answer - believing in science is as much an act of faith a believing in God. But on this topic I'm not actually looking for an answer, because I don't really see a question. You live, you reproduce, you die - what's to question? Why does life need a meaning?

I'd agree with that. Stop questionning and enjoy your little bit of it. All we can do is find a bit of knowledge to make the next century a bit easier. Or destroy ourselves. Whichever comes first.

[red raw]

I'd agree with that. Stop questionning and enjoy your little bit of it. All we can do is find a bit of knowledge to make the next century a bit easier. Or destroy ourselves. Whichever comes first.

That makes you just as bad as Religion.

Dictating what others should believe.

I said what I felt was my personal belief in life and the universe. I never told others what they should believe.

Those who claim to have the answers have God Envy. Those who question, debate and seek more knowledge of life and existance are living how they wish to live, that is Life! (in my view)

[Where'sHeggem?]

I'd agree with that. Stop questionning and enjoy your little bit of it. All we can do is find a bit of knowledge to make the next century a bit easier. Or destroy ourselves. Whichever comes first.

I'm no expert, but isn't this (and other things that have been said) appoaching what i would conceive as existentialism?

[Ricky_Blowdeal]

That makes you just as bad as Religion.

Dictating what others should believe.



:confused: :confused: :confused: :confused:

[Mozzaretti]

I said sod it and became a practising Jedi in 2001

[Taylor]

I said sod it and became a practising Jedi in 2001

I'm no Magnum PI, but I'm guessing that this was just before the time that Mrs Mozarretti upped and left, right?

[1984]

I haven't got much time in these computer deprived days to read through this entire thread and will therefore offer my own opinion regardless of most things that are written.

I can speak both for and against religion. Not wanting to give a sob story but my father died when I was 3 and my mother was dependent on social benefits. The local Mothers Union (an Anglican institution) branch bought a load of presents for me in a big stocking, to make sure I could get some decent stuff. Another Christian woman paid for us to go on holidays. One can read different reasons into why they did that, but in them and in those I have encountered in my work of educating people about concentration camps and prejudice, I have come across people who do these things because they believe them to be their 'religious' duty. Therefore I will stand up for religion.

However I also know cunts who a part of a religion. Now there are many different ways of interpreting scriptures and I tend to have problems with those who believe scriptures to be literal words of God. All scriptures and actions to do with religion are also to be interpreted in light of political, economic, social and cultural means. To blame Jihad, for example, on religion is to ignore such things.

I don't see anyone, 'religious' or otherwise, to be better than other people. I will say that I have know Christians who have been brilliant people and even saintly (such as Brother Roger of Taize who I once met). I will also say that I know non-'religious' people who are also brilliant people. I know people who belong to either camp who are judgemental and intolerant; people on both sides who are quick to judge others and not themselves.

Any speculating about who gets into heaven and who doesn't is purely that, speculation. I have no idea about what happens after people die, apart from being buried or cremated or whatever.

[Rushback]

I have no idea about what happens after people die, apart from being buried or cremated or whatever.


I can accept death from this body (beautiful though it may be) but can't accept that nothing else happens because I want something to happen, I want to know everything, how the universe was made, who shot JR...I mean JFK, what really happend to my cat

what's the point otherwise

[The Prince]

That makes you just as bad as Religion.

Dictating what others should believe.

I said what I felt was my personal belief in life and the universe. I never told others what they should believe.

Those who claim to have the answers have God Envy. Those who question, debate and seek more knowledge of life and existance are living how they wish to live, that is Life! (in my view)

Yes I've been a bit contradictory there What I meant was "stop believing we're special, or at least special from, say, rats." Our job is to make sure hte next hundred years have more of a foting to discover new truths about where we came from, fighting diseases etc. Everything we do is contained to this planet so we should take our place in history rather than hoping for the next life as I suspect there's sod all.

Taylor's right. We're a fungus on a piece of rock. Not God's special people on one tiny insignificant planet.

[Pigsy]

Yes I've been a bit contradictory there What I meant was "stop believing we're special, or at least special from, say, rats." Our job is to make sure hte next hundred years have more of a foting to discover new truths about where we came from, fighting diseases etc. Everything we do is contained to this planet so we should take our place in history rather than hoping for the next life as I suspect there's sod all.

Taylor's right. We're a fungus on a piece of rock. Not God's special people on one tiny insignificant planet.


Sadly I agree with you on this but find it interesting to hear those thoughts from you, someone who has had a NDE that could question these beliefs.

I have had an experience of seeing a ghost several years ago which made me question my lack of beliefs, but even that did not allow me to sway from my we are born, we live, we die belief.

[The Prince]

Course, I don't know how much credence I can take form my experiences bearing in ming that I'd a) suffered a brain haemorrhage and b) was probably stuffed wuth drugs most of the time. Perhaps The Princess can tell me whether any of the drugs I was on when dangerously ill can cause hallucinations. I'm still a Doubting Thomas despite "seeing" what I saw.

My experiences, if they were real, made no mention of God - just of a society of people looking after the new dead.

[The Princess]

Perhaps The Princess can tell me whether any of the drugs I was on when dangerously ill can cause hallucinations. I'm still a Doubting Thomas despite "seeing" what I saw.

You were taking several drugs, all of which are known to cause hallucinations or have other neurological effects. I’m not saying that your experience was drug induced or otherwise, but there is a possibility of that. I do wonder to what extent the brain injury would have affected your thought processes and whether or not you took in information on a subconscious level. For example, I’m not sure if perhaps subconsciously you would have picked up on the fact that you were eventually placed on the Stroke Unit (the less said about that the better), perhaps if you ‘heard’ an orderly being told to take you there. This information could then have manifested itself in your interaction with one of the characters you met whilst unconscious who you then thought had ‘told’ you that you had had a stroke (even though you had not).

I know you told me things afterwards that you were convinced had happened and I had to persuade you that they had not. You were suspicious of what was in the i/v drip, I remember and I also remember you closely watching my facial expressions a lot of the time once you regained consciousness. I thought that you were trying to see if we were lying to you about any of it.

Not a great time – just glad it’s over.

Isn’t the brain fabulous (and isn’t yours fabulous for mending itself)?

[The Prince]

I wish my back would hurry up though.

Yes, all quite possible. It seems I were drifting in and out of consciousness yet had no recollection of any of it.

Wouldn't this have been the time where a "God" had stepped in though if I nearly "went"?

[The Princess]

Wouldn't this have been the time where a "God" had stepped in though if I nearly "went"?

Well I’m a humanist, so don't ask me.

[CODE RED]

not sure what you're getting at here, hope i didnt offend you though, or anyone else for that matter.

i think life is pretty special and if you die, you die... game over. makes me think twice about even splatting flies these days, doesnt matter how unimportant you think it is, the fly still has only one life and it is so easy to kill it and not be bothered, but if you were that fly and got splatted, then it is a pretty important life to yourself. i could be killed in a car accident tomorrow and that would be it, so if i came back as a fly or insect etc.. i would like to think i have as much right to this one life i have as anything or anyone else.

sorry if that doesnt make much sense, had a few beers at lunchtime, but i know what im getting at.:confused:

You didn't offend me at all.

I was unsuccessfully trying to indicate how belief is important to people. It was merely a crap reply.

[redrule]

does it matter what religion you are ?

Ofcourse it matters !!!

I would not belive in a God that did not speak swedish !


Exept Fowler

[The Prince]

Well I’m a humanist, so don't ask me.

If only the bible began with this sentence.

[CODE RED]

If only the bible began with this sentence.

What's a humanist? Is it the same as a Guardianist? Or is to do with Shrek? Then again Shrek and his wife aren't human are they?

[The Princess]

What's a humanist? Is it the same as a Guardianist? Or is to do with Shrek? Then again Shrek and his wife aren't human are they?

:confused: :confused:

Nothing to do with Shrek, Code Red – I’ve just got the avatar because of my user name. I’m (slightly) less green hued than good old Princess Fiona, although less so following a good night out – then the resemblance is striking!

I don’t know what a ‘Guardianist’ is I’m afraid.

In a nutshell, Humanism is the belief that you can lead a good, ethical life without religious beliefs and that the good (or bad) in the world comes from humankind. My philosophy, as a Humanist, is that there is no deity to create meaning or purpose for me and that I need to do that for myself by trying to behave as ethically and responsibly as I can and by recognising that my actions can add to or detract from the common good.

This is a good website if anyone is interested:

http://www.humanism.org.uk/site/cms/contentChapterView.asp?chapter=309

Myself and Mr Princess had a Humanist wedding and The Prince and I gave our dad a Humanist send off when he died.

[Red_on_Silver]

Course, I don't know how much credence I can take form my experiences bearing in ming that I'd a) suffered a brain haemorrhage and b) was probably stuffed wuth drugs most of the time. Perhaps The Princess can tell me whether any of the drugs I was on when dangerously ill can cause hallucinations. I'm still a Doubting Thomas despite "seeing" what I saw.

My experiences, if they were real, made no mention of God - just of a society of people looking after the new dead.

Karl,

The more I hear of your recent experiences, I mean the serious illnesses, I am surprised that you still contribute as much as you do to this Forum. I don't know how you are now, but I hope you are well and that the worst is behind you.

On the point of religion, you either have faith or you don't. I do and from what I gather you don't. Perfectly fair enough and we should be able to respect each other's point of view. I have tried very hard not to get into intense theological arguments, and I will continue to resist it, but there will come a time when I will be more forthcoming with my views in an appropriate forum.

I believe in a God and I can rationalise that beleif using a whole range of evidence around us. I am of the Muslim faith, but have only recently starting understanding what being a Muslim means. I understand my religion better now and I can hold an argument against all-comers, particularly against those that claim to represent my religion and then acts against all the teachings of my religion.

..... to be continued

[The Princess]

On the point of religion, you either have faith or you don't. I do and from what I gather you don't. Perfectly fair enough and we should be able to respect each other's point of view.

Hello RoS

Yes, I wanted to make it clear that while I do not believe in a God or religion myself I am entirely respectful of those who do. There’s that famous quote, isn’t there, about not agreeing with somebody else’s viewpoint but being willing to defend to the death their right to hold it.

[redrule]

As long as democracy and human value comes before religion I am all tolerant may it be the religion I was brought up with or anybody ellses.

[montypithon]

Im Catholic and would say that if you are "Christian" e.g. believe in one God so on and so forth then it is ok.

I disagree with some other non-christian religions, at least the beliefs of those religions however i do agree with the principles based around other religions especially buddhism.

Obviously the principles behind what terrorists do is ridiculous, someone said to me today actually "When they get to "paradise" they are going to be very pissed off" and on some levels i agree with this.

Religion is a very touchy subject with me but as far as im concerned, if you live by the principles set out in the 10 commandments, and then reiterated in the Sermon on the Mount then God will give you a place in heaven....

Sorry if this seems in any way obscure it would take me an age to explain my beliefs because i disagree with a lot of what the church says, especially the Catholic Church even though i am a member of that....

[The Prince]

Hello RoS

Yes, I wanted to make it clear that while I do not believe in a God or religion myself I am entirely respectful of those who do. There’s that famous quote, isn’t there, about not agreeing with somebody else’s viewpoint but being willing to defend to the death their right to hold it.

"Who was that chap, Jeeves? Pal of yours, wasn't he, who said, probably about someone's moustache, "I don't like the bally thing but I defend your right to grow it."
"It was actually Voltaire, sir. 1694 to 1778. He spoke of someone's political beliefs that he didn't share."

Any excuse to drop a bit of Wodehouse in.

Cheers R_O_S

[Red_on_Silver]

Hello RoS

Yes, I wanted to make it clear that while I do not believe in a God or religion myself I am entirely respectful of those who do. There’s that famous quote, isn’t there, about not agreeing with somebody else’s viewpoint but being willing to defend to the death their right to hold it.

Thank you, fully agree with you.

By the way, I am not with the Ins and Outs of the relationships amongst the Forumites; clearly you are closely related to the Prince, but how?

[The Princess]

clearly you are closely related to the Prince, but how?

Karl has the honour and privilege of being my brother.

(He might ban me for that :p )

I, of course, equally have the honour and privilege of being his sister.

(Might have saved myself, there :) )

[The Prince]

Not necessarily.

[user name]

Karl,

The more I hear of your recent experiences, I mean the serious illnesses, I am surprised that you still contribute as much as you do to this Forum. I don't know how you are now, but I hope you are well and that the worst is behind you.

On the point of religion, you either have faith or you don't. I do and from what I gather you don't. Perfectly fair enough and we should be able to respect each other's point of view. I have tried very hard not to get into intense theological arguments, and I will continue to resist it, but there will come a time when I will be more forthcoming with my views in an appropriate forum.

I believe in a God and I can rationalise that beleif using a whole range of evidence around us. I am of the Muslim faith, but have only recently starting understanding what being a Muslim means. I understand my religion better now and I can hold an argument against all-comers, particularly against those that claim to represent my religion and then acts against all the teachings of my religion.

..... to be continued

i've resisted the call to debate too for a number of reasons, that i type slowly being prime...

i talk lots about theological theory with my next door neighbour who practices islam and is studying the qran and prophesy... we were discussing the concept of 'dajjal' and i asked him whether he thought gordon brown may manifest this 'entity' being one-eyed... after chuckling for a bit at my 'joke', he went all serious and is looking more closely at his notes etc...

(see i'm getting all frustro cos i'm typing 200 words behind my thoughts...)

2b cont... aswell...

[MooeyLFC]

Ive just spent about 35-40 mins going through all of the thread and all the responses, and quite frankly i think this is a really interesting one, but can anyone tell me if i will go to hell for bangin dirty janice from the next street right up the wrongun.




ta

Moo

[Ricky_Blowdeal]

Ive just spent about 35-40 mins going through all of the thread and all the responses, and quite frankly i think this is a really interesting one, but can anyone tell me if i will go to hell for bangin dirty janice from the next street right up the wrongun.




ta

Moo

Well if your goin, I'm goin too :D

[Ricky_Blowdeal]

The Pope has said that if it isn't Roman Catholic, it isn't a proper church. Great to see that one of the most influential people on this planet has shown respect for other faiths. :rolleyes:

http://www.timesonline.co.uk/tol/comment/faith/article2056515.ece

[CODE RED]

:confused: :confused:

Nothing to do with Shrek, Code Red – I’ve just got the avatar because of my user name. I’m (slightly) less green hued than good old Princess Fiona, although less so following a good night out – then the resemblance is striking!

I don’t know what a ‘Guardianist’ is I’m afraid.

In a nutshell, Humanism is the belief that you can lead a good, ethical life without religious beliefs and that the good (or bad) in the world comes from humankind. My philosophy, as a Humanist, is that there is no deity to create meaning or purpose for me and that I need to do that for myself by trying to behave as ethically and responsibly as I can and by recognising that my actions can add to or detract from the common good.

This is a good website if anyone is interested:

http://www.humanism.org.uk/site/cms/contentChapterView.asp?chapter=309

Myself and Mr Princess had a Humanist wedding and The Prince and I gave our dad a Humanist send off when he died.


Sorry Princess, that wasn't meant as a taunt. Thanks for educating me.

Do you think many humanist principles are derived from Chritianity though?

[redrule]

Sorry Princess, that wasn't meant as a taunt. Thanks for educating me.

Do you think many humanist principles are derived from Chritianity though?


Most religions have borrowed good things from here and there and eachother.

But most ideas good or bad comes from a man or a woman or a child of any colour of skin faith or e.t.c

[The Princess]

Sorry Princess, that wasn't meant as a taunt. Thanks for educating me.

Do you think many humanist principles are derived from Chritianity though?

No problem, Code Red – I did not take it as a taunt.

I think you are probably right that Humanism does appear to have parallels with Christianity. I think redrule makes a good point, though, in that most religions do seem to have a common basis of a moral code based on common decency and humanity to others. I suppose the major differences between the religions rests on the nature of the deity (I am over simplifying, here, as I appreciate that the nuances of the different faiths are quite different but the underlying philosophy of ‘goodness’ and the existence of an omnipotent and/or omnipresent deity or group of deities does appear to be similar). The difference with Humanism is the belief that there is no deity, and the ‘faith’ (if you can call it that) is in science and the actions of your fellow human beings. Like you, I am a pharmacist so there is an appeal, for me, of a belief system rooted in science.

[CODE RED]

No problem, Code Red – I did not take it as a taunt.

I think you are probably right that Humanism does appear to have parallels with Christianity. I think redrule makes a good point, though, in that most religions do seem to have a common basis of a moral code based on common decency and humanity to others. I suppose the major differences between the religions rests on the nature of the deity (I am over simplifying, here, as I appreciate that the nuances of the different faiths are quite different but the underlying philosophy of ‘goodness’ and the existence of an omnipotent and/or omnipresent deity or group of deities does appear to be similar). The difference with Humanism is the belief that there is no deity, and the ‘faith’ (if you can call it that) is in science and the actions of your fellow human beings. Like you, I am a pharmacist so there is an appeal, for me, of a belief system rooted in science.


I am so so very sorry. I feel your pain. Where and who do you work for by the way (if you don't mind me asking)?

I actually see alot of parallels between science and religion in my religion as well, although some may ridicule them.

In a proper Islamic state, they ought to be progressive in their attitudes with regards to science and its research as well as the arts. I'm not sure that is the case in many so called "islamic states" as it is. Certainly in the so called dark ages Islamic states in Europe WERE forerunners in medicine and historical research for example at that time. Not to mention engineering, architecture etc.. I know that can be argued with.

[Mozzaretti]

I'm no Magnum PI, but I'm guessing that this was just before the time that Mrs Mozarretti upped and left, right?

No, rather bizarrely the year we got married. You know women, can be a bit flip flop at the best of times:rolleyes:

[montypithon]

The Pope has said that if it isn't Roman Catholic, it isn't a proper church. Great to see that one of the most influential people on this planet has shown respect for other faiths. :rolleyes:

http://www.timesonline.co.uk/tol/comment/faith/article2056515.ece

You have to appreciate that the Pope is out and out a Catholic.

What he says is infallible (it is aways right and there are no arguments against it). As a 100% orthadox member of any religion you would believe that all other religions are the wrong one. How bad would it look for catholicism if the Pope turned around and said "actually i quite like buddhism"? It just could never happen...

[Ricky_Blowdeal]

You have to appreciate that the Pope is out and out a Catholic.

What he says is infallible (it is aways right and there are no arguments against it). As a 100% orthadox member of any religion you would believe that all other religions are the wrong one. How bad would it look for catholicism if the Pope turned around and said "actually i quite like buddhism"? It just could never happen...

He should avoid saying it. Regardless of what his personal opinion is, he has landed himself in a role which requires responsibility. His message in itself may not have been offensive but it isn't hard for it to be misconstrued. As you say he is considered to be infallible - is this how all RC's should think?

[montypithon]

He should avoid saying it. Regardless of what his personal opinion is, he has landed himself in a role which requires responsibility. His message in itself may not have been offensive but it isn't hard for it to be misconstrued. As you say he is considered to be infallible - is this how all RC's should think?

Technically yes it IS how RC's are supposed to think, but because of the modern world we live in the vast majority dont.

He no longer holds a "personal" opinion as his opinion is now that of the church not of himself. He is there to represent God not himself.

[The Princess]

I am so so very sorry. I feel your pain.

:D Now come on, it’s not that bad!


who do you work for by the way (if you don't mind me asking)?

I’ve sent you a PM.

[user name]

Sorry Princess, that wasn't meant as a taunt. Thanks for educating me.

Do you think many humanist principles are derived from Chritianity though?

christianity and all other religions for that matter, may have their roots in, for want of a better term, 'humanism'... we are not born with 'orriginal sin' we really are not the 'chosen few', or rather, we are 'all the chosen few'... morality and ethics seem to naturally occur in the child around the age of 5years... in that, before this age the survival mechanism in a child sees it take, take, take... the child learns that to survive he/she must give... an overly simplified explanation but i hope it illustrates my point... we would all be humanists if left to our own devices...

the 'religion' we 'practice' in my home is one that pre-dates islam, christianity, judaism and all others... it's fundamentally elemental... (hey, that's catchy, think i'll start me a sect...;) ) a faith that all our ancestors believed way back when we really had a connection to all things in the universe... it has no deity's... and many deities... it's up to the individual to find personal meaning in what he/she perceives...

the only times we 'celebrate' are on birthdays, deathdays... the winter and summer solstices... we are not pagans nor humanists nor new age star children... in fact, our 'religion' is 'the religion with no name'... personally, i see my 'faith' as like the sun... without it i may die, as the sun fuels our very existence... in winter or on cloudy days, the sun disappears... it's still there, of course, but 'cos we can't see it or get any apparent benefit, faith may wane... this is my personal outlook that helps me, not the same as my partner or children... it's just my trip...:)

it's interesting the job that u and princess do... a very sacred job in my book (in it's old form)... the chemist... alchemist... skill of the shamaan... to help transport us beyond the self and to a higher/different state of consciousness...

this maybe ties in with what karl was expressing...

we all have questions about what god is or isn't... karl experienced something that could have many, many explanations... chemistry in the brain may well determine how reality is perceived... a shock to the system also... the idea of 'entering heaven' has many advocates... but what i think is that sometimes we miss the point trying to 'comprehend' an experience that is life-changing... for me, personally, the important thing wasn't what?where?who? or whatever... but the positive effect it seems to have had on karl's perspective on things... (obviously this is just how i have interpreted his experience)...

i must rest a while as my typing is painfully slow...:)

[Taylor]

Fucking hippies.

[CODE RED]

christianity and all other religions for that matter, may have their roots in, for want of a better term, 'humanism'... we are not born with 'orriginal sin' we really are not the 'chosen few', or rather, we are 'all the chosen few'... morality and ethics seem to naturally occur in the child around the age of 5years... in that, before this age the survival mechanism in a child sees it take, take, take... the child learns that to survive he/she must give... an overly simplified explanation but i hope it illustrates my point... we would all be humanists if left to our own devices...

the 'religion' we 'practice' in my home is one that pre-dates islam, christianity, judaism and all others... it's fundamentally elemental... (hey, that's catchy, think i'll start me a sect...;) ) a faith that all our ancestors believed way back when we really had a connection to all things in the universe... it has no deity's... and many deities... it's up to the individual to find personal meaning in what he/she perceives...

the only times we 'celebrate' are on birthdays, deathdays... the winter and summer solstices... we are not pagans nor humanists nor new age star children... in fact, our 'religion' is 'the religion with no name'... personally, i see my 'faith' as like the sun... without it i may die, as the sun fuels our very existence... in winter or on cloudy days, the sun disappears... it's still there, of course, but 'cos we can't see it or get any apparent benefit, faith may wane... this is my personal outlook that helps me, not the same as my partner or children... it's just my trip...:)

it's interesting the job that u and princess do... a very sacred job in my book (in it's old form)... the chemist... alchemist... skill of the shamaan... to help transport us beyond the self and to a higher/different state of consciousness...

this maybe ties in with what karl was expressing...

we all have questions about what god is or isn't... karl experienced something that could have many, many explanations... chemistry in the brain may well determine how reality is perceived... a shock to the system also... the idea of 'entering heaven' has many advocates... but what i think is that sometimes we miss the point trying to 'comprehend' an experience that is life-changing... for me, personally, the important thing wasn't what?where?who? or whatever... but the positive effect it seems to have had on karl's perspective on things... (obviously this is just how i have interpreted his experience)...

i must rest a while as my typing is painfully slow...:)

that was actually quite interesting. Ignore Taylor, many do anyway.

[Senior Rafa]

To be honest when it comes to religon, i am for and against it some things don't add up.
Adam and Eve first two people on earth, they have to sons, where the rest of the population come from and it also meant we are all inbred!:eek:
But I do believe in a higher force, if it/he/she is called God/Budda/Allah then that's fine.
My belief that we are all here for a reason, it could be somthing like stopping a child from running into a street(that kid could grow up and play an important role in helping many people in the future(Doctor, aid worker etc), could be to father or mother a child that grows to be an important figure, examples like that. And for this we a granted a life as reward.
I call it the "ripple effect" that an action you do has an effect on many generations of an idvidual no matter how small that effect has.

[candyman]

To be honest when it comes to religon, i am for and against it some things don't add up.
Adam and Eve first two people on earth, they have to sons, where the rest of the population come from and it also meant we are all inbred!:eek:
But I do believe in a higher force, if it/he/she is called God/Budda/Allah then that's fine.
My belief that we are all here for a reason, it could be somthing like stopping a child from running into a street(that kid could grow up and play an important role in helping many people in the future(Doctor, aid worker etc), could be to father or mother a child that grows to be an important figure, examples like that. And for this we a granted a life as reward.
I call it the "ripple effect" that an action you do has an effect on many generations of an idvidual no matter how small that effect has.

This is a very interesting thread.
My view is very similar to Senior's but I also share some views with Red Raw. I have a very healthy respect for humanism and science which kind of wars with my faith in a supreme being/force/entity whatever you want to call it.

[user name]

that was actually quite interesting. Ignore Taylor, many do anyway.

cheers... i thought taylor was just making a statement about a good hobby... but yeah, his opinions are funny really... :)

[candyman]

cheers... i thought taylor was just making a statement about a good hobby... but yeah, his opinions are funny really... :)

I may have either a highly sophisticated sense of humour (I favour this option) or it's slightly warped, but I think Taylor's the funniest f@cker on this forum.

[user name]

I may have either a highly sophisticated sense of humour (I favour this option) or it's slightly warped, but I think Taylor's the funniest f@cker on this forum.

don't know about funniest... but definately a funny-fucker...;)

[spike6519]

And as such, wars are started. God surely cannot be happy if this is the case. Dedicated believers and followers of his word, albeit slightly different, killing, and letting others be killed in his name. Does a man deserve to die because of his religious leanings? No, yet through the ages it's always happend

How can this be avoided in the future?

How is it possible for a Hindu to accept a Muslim or a Christian to accept Sikh, when each believes their God is the only true God? If a person believes another persons religion is wrong, then how can you respect that person, knowing that they are obviously blasphemous and doomed for an eternity

I'll tell you

To live side by side is the ultimate goal for the human race but whilst there are many different religious factions, it's always going to be impossible, which is why God created Football. It's the only mass event I know where I can hug a Muslim to the left of me, A Christian to the right, Kiss a Hindu on the nose and grab a sikh by the shoulders and shake him silly, we've just scored in injury time, I love you all

Thank God for Football

:D :D :D
Excellent
Show me one undisputed shred of evidence that God exists and I will be a devout religous man. Until then there is always footy.

[1984]

The last paragraph of Rushback's post describes what I as a Christian would call the kingdom of heaven. QED, supporting Liverpool brings one into the divine.

[redrule]

I belive in having religious feelings towards once place in the big picture , as I belive that should make us humble of how short life can be and make us respect life and the circle of life and treat the world in a way that leaves it for the generations to come. ( As long as our sun will shine to keep life on this planet. )

I have another feeling against many religions wich uses those feelings in the individual for political reasons and leds man in a oposit direction.

There has been to many wars with soldiers being told that God is on their side.

Even the german soldiers had an inscription in the belt buckle that said -
God mit uns - meaning God is with us.

Any person who is not causious about what and where the highest priest is leading you , the one that is the top interpreter of the bible , may end up loosing the most precious gift God gave us ....

Namely life itself ...

[user name]

I belive in having religious feelings towards once place in the big picture , as I belive that should make us humble of how short life can be and make us respect life and the circle of life and treat the world in a way that leaves it for the generations to come. ( As long as our sun will shine to keep life on this planet. )

I have another feeling against many religions wich uses those feelings in the individual for political reasons and leds man in a oposit direction.

There has been to many wars with soldiers being told that God is on their side.

Even the german soldiers had an inscription in the belt buckle that said -
God mit uns - meaning God is with us.

Any person who is not causious about what and where the highest priest is leading you , the one that is the top interpreter of the bible , may end up loosing the most precious gift God gave us ....

Namely life itself ...

all your reasons above made me make the decision to look at spirituality and find the fundamental roots and find my own way... those people who stick to man-made dogma and hatred are doomed right here on earth... lost souls in a sea of lies...

[CODE RED]

Its been a good thread on the whole.