Independent LFC Fans' Survey

[Laura_25]

In the two weeks running up to the final in Athens, discussion amongst
the owners and admins of a number of fanzines and websites led to the
idea of launching an independently-run fans' survey. The intention of
the survey would be to gather ideas on a range of fan issues and then
inform the club on how the fans feel it could improve in these areas.

The idea isn't for this to be an ongoing project with specific long
term aims, but more a snapshot of the current state of the club's
"customer interaction", hopefully leading to the opening of a dialogue
with the new owners. They can then carry the ideas forward themselves
and hopefully introduce improvements which benefit us all.

The survey is being supported by the following fanzines, groups and websites:

Anfield Road
Est1892
LFCOnline
On The Kop
Reclaim The Kop
Red All Over The Land
Red And White Kop
Shankly Gates
Six Crazy Minutes
TalkLFC
The Liverpool Way
The Road End
This is Anfield
Through The Wind And Rain
YNWA

To conduct the survey we've created a number of email addresses where
ideas, problems and issues can be sent. We will then collate them,
publish a summary of the views we receive on all the participating
sites and make the results presentable to the club.

The initial focus, based purely on time, will be the loyalty card
system. What we'd like is for fans to put some thoughts on how they
would like "loyalty" operated – everyone is aware of the furore over
the way tickets were allocated for the final in Athens and we feel
this is our chance to speak with the club to get a system the majority
of fans think is clear and fair, and hopefully get it in place for
next season. You may feel the current system is fine, or you may want
major changes - we are sure there'll be lots of different ideas sent
to us. And we don't want to restrict this just to the way the final
tickets were allocated, but for it to also encompass the whole issue
of loyalty across all the competitions through the season, so your
views and ideas are welcome.

Email us with your views on the loyalty scheme to:

lfc.loyalty@gmail.com

The events in Athens has inevitably generated much discussion amongst
fans - as such rather than dealing with this ourselves, we thought it
worth pointing fans in the direction of the Football Supporters
Federation who are investigating the ticketing shambles and are
requesting individual accounts from fans. We'd urge everyone with
strong views on what went on to get in touch:

http://www.fsf.org.uk/news/news0040-eventsinathens.html

email: athens2007@fsf.org.uk

They've also told us they're thinking about organising a meeting in
2/3 weeks time in Liverpool on the Athens issue and will get in
contact with more information when it is available.

Moving on from there, as well as the loyalty issue we also want to
collate ideas (personal examples would be great) of how the club can
improve in other areas. For example fans often find the club shop is
short of items; maybe you unhappy about the way the ticket office
sells tickets by phone/online; do you get frustrated when seeing
tickets advertised by agencies or touts?; or perhaps you have an idea
on how the club can improve its matchday facilities such as reducing
the queues for a beer at halftime.

Contact us with your thoughts via these email addresses:

Ticket Office: lfc.to.issues@gmail.com

Club Shop: lfc.shop@gmail.com

Online Store: lfc.online.shop@gmail.com

Matchday: lfc.matchday@gmail.com

Miscellaneous: lfc.misc.issues@gmail.com

We're sure to have missed some fans out so feel free to post this on
other LFC sites/message boards/email lists – the idea of this is for
it to be inclusive of all ideas and issues. Nobody is right or wrong,
we just want to move the club forward, help provide as many points of
view as possible, and improve things for us, the fans.

thanks,

Independent LFC Fans' Survey

supported by:

Anfield Road http://www.anfieldroad.com/
Est1892 http://www.est1892.co.uk/
LFCOnline http://www.lfconline.com/
On The Kop http://www.onthekop.com/
Reclaim The Kop http://www.reclaimthekop.co.uk/
Red All Over The Land http://www.raotl.co.uk/
Red And White Kop http://www.redandwhitekop.com
Shankly Gates http://www.shanklygates.co.uk
Six Crazy Minutes http://www.sixcrazyminutes.com/
TalkLFC http://www.talklfc.com/
The Liverpool Way http://www.liverpoolway.co.uk/
The Road End http://www.theroadend.co.uk/
This is Anfield http://www.thisisanfield.com/
Through The Wind And Rain http://www.ttwar.net/
YNWA http://www.ynwa.tv/

[glockdanny]

Just sent the FSF, who were appealing for witness accounts, this:

Approx, 7.30pm - exited metro station at Olympic complex to a scene of general chaos with no obvious directions etc.

After a few moments of getting my bearings, I could see the bulk of the crowd heading off to the left, so followed the ‘herd’.

Within 20 metres if the station tunnel, I encountered my first checkpoint / cordon. I could see some people getting their tickets out but there was NO instruction verbal or physical and NO communication whatsoever from the organisers/security. I gathered that this initial line of police were performing some kind of ticket checks but by the time I realised that I was pretty much past them – and to be honest, I didn’t even know if I was heading in the right direction or not. Myself and my brother still had our tickets in our pockets – we made no attempt to evade any checks and I could see countless others in that short period who had done the same.

So, having gone through that first line of police, I looked around for direction and instruction – nothing. I could just see, around 30 metres ahead, some sort of ‘harris’ style fencing, a line of apparent riot police and a disorganised mass of people milling around them. I truthfully didn’t know where exactly to go in – there were no marked entrances and no persons in authority were making any attempt to communicate any instruction to fans. There were no queues and it wasn’t clear in any way where you were supposed to go to get anywhere. I guessed and tagged myself onto the main mass of people congregating around the riot police and fencing, thinking that would probably lead to the way in. Well, then the chaos really did start. I could see a small gap in the harris fencing somewhere beyond the line of riot police and I could see fans spilling in through the gap. After a few minutes myself and my brother found ourselves being jostled around, tightly packed in amongst a crowd of Liverpool fans who didn’t seem to be heading in any particular direction at all. It was utter chaos. Police were shouting at people in Greek. Every 20-30 seconds or so, shouts came from fans ‘at the front’ to stop pushing - their shouts were repeated by other fans which resulted in people further back stepping back to ease pressure. As stated, this worked for half a minute or so, but nobody knew what was going on, where they were supposed to be heading etc. so the pressure built up again. After about 10 minutes or so of being stuck in this crowd we had somehow managed to work our way to the front, right next to the police line. Still no instruction – but I could see a gap where people seemed to be heading through so we inched our way towards it. I could see people holding their match tickets in the air – and to be honest, I didn’t want to get mine out until I had to because I feared losing it or having it snatched in the melee. Again, nobody asked to see our ticket, we were just kind of ‘squeezed through’ a gap in the police and through the fencing, with no idea of quite how we did it.

Then came the 15 minute walk or so through the Olympic complex to the actual stadium – again, no signage at all, just following the crowd. I was very hungry and thirsty but saw NO facilities for food and drink anywhere at all, despite looking hard and over considerable distance. In fact, there appeared to be no facilities whatsoever for the fans ANYwhere in the Olympic complex, which I found staggering. I kept thinking there might be some food and drink somewhere near the ground so kept heading towards it, and eventually we came to another checkpoint, about 30 metres from the rear of the stadium; I could see a line of police vans parked tightly together forming some sort of perimeter around (what I presumed) was the Liverpool end of the stadium. There was a 20 metre or so gap between the lines of vans which people seemed to be heading towards – I guessed this was another ticket checkpoint. As I got closer, I could see a line of fencing with periodical gaps in it, and by each of these gaps were stewards, but no police. Again, no instruction verbal or otherwise was given and there were no displays or signs explaining what the procedure was. There was another ‘bottleneck’ style build up of fans, fairly orderly it has to be said, as most people seemed to work out from seeing the actions of stewards that this was a point where your tickets might actually be checked. BUT, this wasn’t being done properly. There were no more than about 5-6 ‘checkpoints’ for all the fans coming in, and on most of these checkpoints, a steward was working alone trying to control the flow of people coming in. On the walk up to the stadium, I was walking few feet from about four men whom I heard say that they had no tickets at all. At this latter checkpoint, I watched these four walk STRAIGHT PAST a steward, because the steward was too busy dealing with a fan who apparently had a forged ticket! I watched again as another person barged past another steward at the next checkpoint – the steward then ran after him which of course, left NOBODY on his checkpoint AT ALL to stop fans getting in! So of course, people just strolled in without having their tickets checked at all. My brother, to prove a point, just waved a blue Champions League leaflet at a steward and I watched as he walked in unchallenged. Personally, I made a point of showing my ticket to the two female stewards on our checkpoint. They waved the UV lamp over the ticket and then ushered me in – but left my ticket entirely intact! Once past this checkpoint, there was a ‘sterile’ area approx 30 metres square which led up to the back of the stadium stand…..there were no further checks at all – we were, for all intents and purposes, ‘in the ground’. I found it astonishing to see no turnstiles and at the actual ‘ticket checking’ point, no police to back up stewards encountering problems with fans or tickets.

It was absolute child’s play to get in that ground without a valid ticket – I saw groups of people doing it without even trying.

Once in the actual stadium concourse, I saw that I could have quite easily wandered around and given my intact ticket to fans outside in order for them to get in, but fortunately I saw the wisdom in that.

We made our way to our seats, finally getting to our seats at 8.30pm! I was still hungry and thirsty so we decided to try and find something. Despite looking and asking around, we found ONE VERY SMALL KIOSK selling food and drink in the entire Liverpool end. We returned to our seats at 9.20pm – it took FIFTY minutes to work our way from our seats, pay for the food and wait in the queue, then return to our seats – I ate as I walked back to the seat. Many of these problems were caused by the mass of people clogging up the Gate 35 gangway – there were NO stewards AT ALL directing anybody or making any attempt to keep access clear. It was obvious the end was greatly overcrowded from looking at the gangways and the fact that many people were standing two to a seat.

I hope this is of some help to you. As stated, feel free to contact me if you need any further assistance.

[Matt R]

Just sent the FSF, who were appealing for witness accounts, this:

Many of these problems were caused by the mass of people clogging up the Gate 35 gangway – there were NO stewards AT ALL directing anybody or making any attempt to keep access clear. It was obvious the end was greatly overcrowded from looking at the gangways and the fact that many people were standing two to a seat.




Dan, I know its not my place to say about any organisational stuff, but there was one steward in 35. He was stood right behind me (around where you and Mart saw us). He was stood next to 5 or 6 Greek lads, and when Greg asked them how on earth they got tickets in our end, the steward piped up and said that they were his mates and he'd walked them in with him.

[glockdanny]

I'm only giving my individual account Matt, not the results of an inquiry! FSF will realise that (won't they? :confused: ) It's quite possible that he wasn't there when I looked!

You should give them your account, even if you were 'a little bit naughty'. In many ways, your account would be of more value to them than mine, if worded diplomatically.

[Matt R]

Sorry mate, I was more pointing out the fact that a steward had quite happily got all his mates in for free, just because he was a steward, not arguing with your account at all!

[glockdanny]

I realised that as I clicked 'submit', but I haven't taken my anti-small man syndrome pills yet today y'see.

[Real Deep]

Personally, I made a point of showing my ticket to the two female stewards on our checkpoint. They waved the UV lamp over the ticket and then ushered me in – but left my ticket entirely intact!

What did you expect her to do, set fire to it?:D

Personally, I think too much is made of the fact that the stubs weren't ripped off. Mine was ripped on the edge to see of it was perforated. I saw quite a few around me having the same thing done to theirs.

[glockdanny]

She could have at least done me the courtesy of wiping her arse on it.

[Real Deep]

She could have at least done me the courtesy of wiping her arse on it.

Don't you mean arser?

[Big Ed]

let this loose now?

[Laura_25]

Aye meant to mention this to you. It's been unstuck from the other forum as well.

[Big Ed]

Stuck the issue 78 thread in its place originally, but I don't know if anyone else just gets in the habit of ignoring the top of the board. I realise that's bad, especially for Michael S, but I think just remembering to bump the threads you want to keep in view is the best bet.

[Laura_25]

I think once you've read a stuck thread initially, it's easy to ignore it when someone has added something new to it.