England and football

[Prozac]

I always wanted to post this even before the limp Israeli performance (where the coach is getting most of the blame instead of the supposedly world class players) but when it comes to football-why are England shit?

It's always been like this-the performances for instance last summer were terrible.
Euro 88 and 92 were embarassing.
Back to last summer and you see English football in a different context when you are surrounded by non-English people.
I remember for instance the England-Ecuador game last summer being shown on a big screen in a Swabian town square and nobody was watching it-one Spanish fan told me in disgust how he hated the style of English football.
This is in stark contrast to the English club football of the 1970s and 1980s which won may fans -particularly in Scandinavia.
Excuses are always trotted out-the heat for instance was blamed last summer-but I ask the question-on a world stage which English footballers have made an impression over the last 25 years?
Lineker, Owen and possibly Beckham in small doses.
Anybody else?

The "world class" Gerrard has played two full tournaments now and has looked erm..okay.

For a country the size of England with its rich footballing history-England's impact on the world stage in recent decades has been shoddy particularly in the European Championship.
And it goes much deeper-the huge influx of foreign players from Europe is a result of the lack of technically gifted English players (and coaches).
Yet the influx over the last ten years is mostly replacing the Irish, Welsh and Scottish players who made up most of the top club sides.

And this foreign influx has diluted traditional English virtues of the passion and hard work of club teams.Without this-there is nothing left in the tank.
In 2007 and English football has entered a straneg era with crowds flocking to see foreign players making up the majority of the club sides and with the top clubs now being owned by foreign business men.
A star like Rooney or Owen comes along and this briefly masks the deficiencies of the English game-and of the fact that England could struggle to produce a team in four years time-or-even qualify for a tournament.

[adblock109er]

THE major problem with our football and it is driven by the clubs to the scouts (junior level), is to look for kids with pace, power and physique.

There are loads of very, very good technically gifted players at junior level - those that can pass, control and move but the clubs don't want to know about it generally.

The result being the game in this country is generally played fast and furious.

There have been some imported foreign exceptions - Zola, Cantona and Ronaldo (as an example) but many good players have not been able to "compete" with the robots we have developed.

As these players have developed over the past 15 years or so, the national team now stands at a pinnacle of what has been scouted and coached.

Robots who cannot pass, control or have the technical ability to play.

Look to the top and work your way down.

There are a few who have made the system the fool it is - Mcmanaman, Giggs, Fowler, Lennon, etc - those who have risen above the power play ethic, but generally we have what we have produced.

In Europe, the system we have is generally laughed at.

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[Plughead]

I don't think it is a coincidence that English players very rarely succeed abroad

[big dutch]

.................and also an english manager has not won his domestic league since 1992 and the main domestic cup since 1995

[dicko1969]

Chris Waddle was massive in Marseille, Hoddle in Monaco, & Trevor Steven.... Platt & Gazza did ok... Mark (Attila) Hately was adored...

Macca got 2 CL medals too

These days nobody goes coz there isnt the money like there was.. and the PREM League pays far far more than any other league in the world... thanks to ticket prices & tv........ £30 is a season ticket for some countries!

with exception to USA & Dubai for a few contracts...

But yes Jimmy Greaves didnt really make it in Italy...

Best ever John Charles.. legend , but then again he was welsh wasnt he.

[indian magic]

get in a foreign coach. But limiting foreign players will not make difference to quality of english players breaking through, (although it will give opportunities for average players to break through in to their club first team which they couldnt because displaced by foregin player) as any young player who is exceptional/international standard will break through in to their club team anyway... i.e. over the years fthe following players have broken through in to their clubs first team before the age of 19 and thus have not been impeded by foreigners at the club.. fowler, mcmanaman, owen , garry neville, beckham,scholes, rio ferdinand, joe cole, rooney, aaron lennon

[adblock109er]

Chris Waddle was massive in Marseille, Hoddle in Monaco, & Trevor Steven.... Platt & Gazza did ok... Mark (Attila) Hately was adored...

Waddle, Hoddle and Steven :rolleyes: were great in a very poor and weak French League.

Platt was passed around Italian clubs - one season at a time and moved on until he came back here - not a success.

Gazza - remarkably was a hit in Scotland - Italy - don't make me laugh.

Hateley - now you are taking the piss.

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[RED CORNER]

McClaren is a hugely over-rated coach. A man who's fear of losing outweighs his desire to win.
That Boro ST holder didn't throw his ST book at McClaren for nothing.

[adblock109er]

English players who I adored watching and yet bizarrely were not given a chance on the international stage:

Currie
Bowles
Hudson
Cowans
Marsh
Callaghan

Others who got caps but were not the bulldog breed and not allowed to play:

Hoddle
Barnes
McManaman

Sure there's more, so it's a good job we had players like Butcher, Pearce, Carlton Palmer, etc to carry us forward.

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[dicko1969]

Chris Waddle was massive in Marseille, Hoddle in Monaco, & Trevor Steven.... Platt & Gazza did ok... Mark (Attila) Hately was adored...

Waddle, Hoddle and Steven :rolleyes: were great in a very poor and weak French League.

Platt was passed around Italian clubs - one season at a time and moved on until he came back here - not a success.

Gazza - remarkably was a hit in Scotland - Italy - don't make me laugh.

Hateley - now you are taking the piss.

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the french league wasnt weak in the late 80s or early 90s Papin, Tigana, Cantona, Franck Suazé, Djorkaeff, Boli, Deschamps, Blanc, Petit, Weah, Ginola, Pele, Francescoli Makelele, Zidane, Karembeu, Liza, Thuram, Bravo, Guerin, etc etc etc etc

PSG & Strasbourg even come to mind.

[adblock109er]

The French league was and is, generally known, in European circles, to be fuckin' shite.

Nothing really to add.

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[RED CORNER]

It is shite.

[dicko1969]

The French league was and is, generally known, in European circles, to be fuckin' shite.

Nothing really to add.

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is maybe...

was dont think so.

[Ian K]

I'm not necessarily saying that I disagree with what Prozac is saying, when he mainly blames the players ahead of the coaches, but after that yesterday I found myself thinking the opposite.
When England are playing teams like that, Macedonia etc, teams that you know they are streets ahead of and should be well capable of beating without breaking sweat, I found myself thinking they would be better off without any coaches on the scene at all. Especially the likes of McClaren and Sven who just seem to hold them back with their conservative, pragmatic tactics. If they were just left to it without any stone age instructions to follow, they would just go out and play, and would have far too much for teams like that. They all already know their individual jobs, and should in theory at least be able to incorporate their individual jobs in to a recognisable team ethic. It's the tactics that hold them back, or maybe a lack of intelligence on their behalf meaning they are unable to follow the instructions properly, or possibly that they don't believe in them anyway.

Of course they need a good, tactically aware coach when up against the better teams, and they usually hold their own against such teams before eventually succumbing to the extra bit of class these teams possess. Reaching an occasional semi, a few quarters, and sometimes the first round of the later stages IS England's level. The fact so many of their fans can't recognise this is also one of the problems they face, adding to the expectation levels and increasing the pressure.
But they achieve this limited success against these better teams by playing to their historic (or should it be pre-historic) strengths. All out effort, a physical approach, and by stifling the oppositions usually more enterprising play. You can say they are unlucky when they are forever losing on pens, but I also feel that if they opened up and tried to take them on, they would have lost before it came to pens.

I know there's a slight contradiction in the two scenarios I've described there, but I'm assuming people on here will know what I'm trying to say.

As ad says, there must be loads of technically gifted kids coming through the ranks, what I can't undertand is what happens to them. Are they discarded, or do they have their ability coached out of them, concentrating instead on making them athletes rather than footballers? I suppose "we" won the WC a million years ago like that, and have been trying to re-create it ever since. Maybe seeing Greece win the European Championships makes English coaches STILL believe this is the way to go, I don't really know.

I know many will disagree as we tend not to like those Cockney wide boy types, but if Harry Harris hadn't of hounded Venables out of the England job for reasons most ordinary fans weren't remotely interested in, they might have started to get somewhere.
And if plenty disagree with that, then many more will disagree with this. There was, and still is, something about Hoddle that bothers me, can't take to him at all. But if you take the football England played in Le Tournoi as an example, then they would have had an even better chance of achieving something if they'd stuck with him if that sort of stuff could have been built on.
But he got hounded out as well.
It seems English=conservatism, in all walks of life, I mean if it wasn't for the Celts, we'd have had a Tory govt practically forever as far as I know.
It's shit isn't it!
Good job we don't care!
;)

[adblock109er]

Ian

On a very personal level, I really don't care - about the national team :D.

What really is pissing me off is the number of potential junior players who are missing the boat getting in to our clubs through the fact that they have no pace or power but really are technically more gifted than the power houses who are succeeding - and have said so for 5 years or more.


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[kingharry]

the problem is that it's dead windy in Britain and so it's hard to learn boss fancy footy skills.

Apparantly.

The current crop are just a bunch of arogant tosspots who just don't give a flying shite about playing for England. It's actually very funny watching the self-righteous cunts putting in piss-poor performances (although I don't really pay much attention, save for hoping that Lampard will break his back at some stage) and then all talking about how "there's such a good buzz about the squad", "we're all still really confident", "we know we are a top top side", "Frank is different class", "you can't really lay any blame at our door", "we did everything other than win", etc etc etc ...

They live in an entirely different world of zero accountability.

[adblock109er]

is maybe...

was dont think so.

No European Cup wins in 51 attempts - Marseille were stripped of that title due to corrupt officials.

One Cup Winners Cup success - 95/96 - PSG over the powerhouses of Austrian football - Rapid Vienna.

Uefa Cup wins - Fuck all.

Take your French footie was fuckin great in the the late 80's/early 90's and stick it up your arse.

Is shit, was shit.

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[dicko1969]

is maybe...

was dont think so.

No European Cup wins in 51 attempts - Marseille were stripped of that title due to corrupt officials.

One Cup Winners Cup success - 95/96 - PSG over the powerhouses of Austrian football - Rapid Vienna.

Uefa Cup wins - Fuck all.

Take your French footie was fuckin great in the the late 80's/early 90's and stick it up your arse.

Is shit, was shit.

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Ill have a word with Messrs Platini & Zidane for yaz...

ad (Connard) dit : Mits ta foot dans ton cou!

[Pool Rulz]

THE major problem with our football and it is driven by the clubs to the scouts (junior level), is to look for kids with pace, power and physique.

There are loads of very, very good technically gifted players at junior level - those that can pass, control and move but the clubs don't want to know about it generally.

The result being the game in this country is generally played fast and furious.

There have been some imported foreign exceptions - Zola, Cantona and Ronaldo (as an example) but many good players have not been able to "compete" with the robots we have developed.

As these players have developed over the past 15 years or so, the national team now stands at a pinnacle of what has been scouted and coached.

Robots who cannot pass, control or have the technical ability to play.

Look to the top and work your way down.

There are a few who have made the system the fool it is - Mcmanaman, Giggs, Fowler, Lennon, etc - those who have risen above the power play ethic, but generally we have what we have produced.

In Europe, the system we have is generally laughed at.

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*PLONK* (Sound of nail being hit on head by proverbial hammer)

However, in Liverpool, there are also a few foreigners who come under category in bold... namely our favourite Norwegian and a certain Malian.

[redrule]

I don't think it is a coincidence that English players very rarely succeed abroad


Agree, ... but why ?

:confused:

[Don Pedro]

Ill have a word with Messrs Platini & Zidane for yaz...

ad (Connard) dit : Mits ta foot dans ton cou!

I don't remember much about French club football from the late 80s or early 90s - apart from the Tapie scandal - but Platini was early-mid 80s, part of the great French national side - and Zidane didn't get going until the mid-late 90s, not early 90s.

Il faut que toi fasse ça, pas eux.

I couldn't really give a shit about the England team - apart from the amusement provided by the outraged support after another damp squib. McLaren's not a good manager, just a sort of hold-the-fort character. Much-liked at the FA for his media-handling abilities - such as announcing, after Seville destroyed Middlesborough in the UEFA Cup final, "that was never a 4-0 ..."

I've news for you, Mr Lebowski...

The real problem is probably cultural. Defending is easier to coach than playing creative football, and exploiting one or two big bastard front players is the easy way the game operates at every level, including, I suspect, kids football. Noone ever really gets chance to learn how to deceive an opponent, by trying things out, letting his skill develop.

It's also true that there are fewer places for kids to play - no more games in the street, jumpers for goalposts. So if you're spotted at, say, the age of 11, as having some talent, in a junior league, in no time at all they've got you at an academy where one of Don Howe's men can tell you all about how the offside trap works.

[Steven - Dublin]

The current England team is hyped beyond belief. Sky are constantly telling us that the Premier League is the best league in the world. All of the England team play in the best league in the world, so they must be the best.

All this hype is then passed on to McClaren, who like Eriksson, succumbs to the pressure of having so many over paid superstars in his squad. That is why Lampard and Gerrard play together. He doesn't have the balls to drop one of them for the balance of the team.

Then there is team selection. Why was Carra playing on Saturday? He did a great job and almost scored but is he a better left back than Barry? Especially against a team that was looking for 0-0. When McClaren was looking to push on and get that vital goal, what did he do? He brought on a full back! Lennon on the left? The English team is full of square pegs in round holes.

On the youngsters coming through, I think Rafa's comments about the Reserve team makes sense. There is so much pressure on clubs to stay in the Premier League, they can't blood young player becuase the need the ready made product which they can buy cheaper from abroad. If there was a decent Reserve league, young players would come on quicker and better.

Due to the money involved, players are also training for specific positions at an early age. They're not being sent out to enjoy themselves, they're being told to stay back, to push on, overlap etc.

[big dutch]

its quite interesting about the french league being shite as they have had over 20 years a successful national side
1982 world cup semis
1984 european champions
1986 world cup semis
1998 world champs
2000 euro champs

it got me thinking about when we were winning european cups as a country on a regular basis, so if we go from 1976 / 1977 to 1984
1976 didnt qualify for euro champs
1978 didnt qualify for world cup
1980 groups stages of euro champs ?
1982 2nd round of world cup
1984 didnt qualify for euro champs

we then get banned from europe and
1986 world cup quarter finals
1990 world cup semi finals

so s agood national side does not seem to co-inside with a good club set up

when steve from dublin says sky hype up the premier league saying its the best in the world, they maybe true. look at the country who has 3 sides inthe last 8 this year of europe
but its not because of the english that the englsih league is potentially the best league

[Steven - Dublin]

It is the richest league in the world but not the best. Bolton are 5th in the league. I think that says it all.

[redmonkey]

I wonder if any of us watch enough of the Spanish and Italian leagues to really judge them significantly better than the Premiership? For me, all I really know about the foreign leagues is the main Champions League teams. Outside of Barca, Madrid, Valencia, the Milan clubs ect, how good are the mid-ranking teams?

The fact remains that England is now fast becoming the dominant force in the Champions League. The chances are that there will be an English team in the final for the third straight year. A lot of this is due to the foreign influence but Liverpool have Gerrard, Carragher and Crouch (who has done well in Europe this year), United have Ferdinand, Neville and Rooney and Chelsea have Terry and Lampard. With the possible exception of Rooney, they've all shown they can compete in the Champions League, which is clearly at a higher level than international football.

I don't think its lack of quality with England. It seems to lack of ideas, lack of good management, and the fact that the players just don't seem to hve the same desire to do well for their country as for their clubs. To be honest, when the club is paying you such riches, it is understandable that you save your best for them. It's similar to how the Brazil team performed at the last World Cup and how Spain's fortunes seem to mirror those of England.
In these days of multi-million pound contracts, it's probably naive to think that players still care about glory at internationa level.

[Dublin Red]

I always wanted to post this even before the limp Israeli performance (where the coach is getting most of the blame instead of the supposedly world class players) but when it comes to football-why are England shit?.


Count yourself lucky you don't suppot the Republic Of Ireland. We beat the worst Welsh team I've ever seen on Saturday and yet they actually looked better then us by the end ! :*(

[Steven - Dublin]

The FAI are a bunch of clowns. How they could appoint Staunton as manager is beyond me. And they gave him a 4 year deal. Venebles was ready to sign a contract as manager but the FAI got cold feet at the last minute. I know Venebles is a cowboy but he would have no money to spend and he knows his football. Ireland will get hammered on Wednesday

[Big Ed]

At international level you need 'gravitas' more than anything.

What did Jack Charlton do at club level? Fuck all, but the players looked up to him. That won't happen with Staunton, or McClaren for that matter.

It must be hard to work with Ferguson, Mourinho and Benitez every week (obviously not Wenger!) then have to go and take instructions from a clod like Beetrootface. It'll be the same with Allardyce.

The talent is clearly there.

[Mart Le Taxi]

English players who I adored watching and yet bizarrely were not given a chance on the international stage:

Currie
Bowles
Hudson
Cowans
Marsh
Callaghan

Hoddle
Barnes
McManaman

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Have you noticed a connection between most if not all of the above and something lacking in the current England team ?

That top group-artists the lot of them.

[Dave76]

Robots who cannot pass, control or have the technical ability to play.
Like Riise you mean?

[adblock109er]

Not saying all foreign players are fantastic players, merely stating that the bulk of our players do not have the basic ability to recieve a ball, control it and lay it off, without looking dreadfully uncomfortable for alot of the time.

Heaven forbid if its on a weaker foot.

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[Big Ed]

"Oh oh oh, he's ma-gic, you knooooooooow........."






What?

[kg271]

I seem to remember paul Ince being a big hit in italy and it was rumoured that Inter wanted him back when we let him Go. Souness also did well.

John Aldridge Did well in Spain too, but true these players tend to be exceptions rather than the rule.

For me there are a few issues with the England set up.

!st, as everybody knows we aren't as good as we think we are, but we still go into every competition expecting to win it.

2nd Tho the standard of player were producing has improved since the late 80's and the Dawn of the long ball, the standard of our mangers hasn't.

Forgive me for saying it but Even Sven would've produced better football than what Mclaren is giving us. We all know that if england want to play a 442 then he would have to drop Lampard and put Gerrard in the centre, as Lampard is at his best in a 5man midfield when he's got others to do his work for him, and he can concentrate on scoring goals.

3rd because of the poor standard of coaching alot of the players we produce are one dimentional. The can either pass but not tackle. Dribble but not pass or tackle, or score but contribute nothing else.

Because of our media as soon as a player produces one of these attributes we lable him as world class, before they have fully learned the game.

There was a time where players coming into the first team at 24 or 25 were considered to be young players. These players would have mastered the art of tackling, passing and positional play before getting into the team.

We now field too many incomplete players. Look at Lennon for example Lightning quick, but whats his crossing like? Poor! What's his left foot like? don't know he never uses it! what's his shooting like? ok getting better!

and this is a player if we wanted to sign would cost us £20 million.

anyway even if we haven't produced the best players we should still be able to produce better performances than we are now. The Republic take payers that would never make the grade for England and mix them with some Irish players some good some ok, and have beaten some of the tiop sides in Europe. The thing theyhave and we don't is team spirit. They all fight for the same cause and are proud to wear the shirt. Too many England players are just goin through the motions.

[Matt R]

Jack Charlton was the first (and possibly the last) manager to win the Manger of The Year award when managing a team in the (old) second division with Boro. Agree with the general point though. McClaren just looks and sounds like he's got no authority. Same with Taylor when he was in charge.

I think most of the players are ridiculously over-rated in that England squad. Before the World Cup when it was being said that they had their best collection of players for ages, I thought it was pure bollocks. The first eleven is decent, but no more. Outside of that - Downing, Jenas, Green (or Kirkland or whoever) are just middle of the road players, or worse. Even some of the first eleven wouldn't exactly scare you.

Land Green came up with a good comment on Saturday. 'Rio Ferdinand is playing as though he thinks he's the best defender in the world. Which he's not' Sums up the attitude of a lot of them wo me.

[Mart Le Taxi]

When you pick a club side you pick individuals who complement each other and to a pattern of play the manager wants to play.

With England its the best left back, the best centre half, the best right back and so on. Lots of "the best" who can't necessarily play together. Then there is the media pressure to play certain players in certain positions.

We at Liverpool are more than aware that just because a player looks great elsewhere (Morientes, Cisse?) he'll as a matter of course, do that job for your team.

Other international sides are made up of a team, not just a group of individuals.

[Mick R]

Outside of that - Downing, Jenas, Green (or Kirkland or whoever) are just middle of the road players, or worse.

Carson's had a great season for Charlton, hasn't he? Is there any reason why he isn't considered?








Sorry, I haven't got anything more to contribute, I'm just doing that Everton thing - "I'm still here"...

[Mart Le Taxi]

Two of the best three keepers on current form are James and Carson.

Both completely overlooked. :confused:

[Matt R]

That's the thing though Mart, James is probably doing as well as anyone on current form, but he's 35ish, and you know that a real howler is just around the corner. Even on top form he comes and misses as much as ever.

Carson is doing well, but I always think that keepers at relegation threatened teams often appear better than they are, because they face umpteen times more shots and therefore do pull off a lot more saves. I do like the look of him in general, though.

[Mart Le Taxi]

Didn't do Foster any harm

[Matt R]

I agree. I was more saying that it might be an indication of why England are not the side many believe, when players like James and Carson should be in the squad.

Also having to look for first division players to bolster the squad shows that the quality ain't necessarily there.

[adblock109er]

"Oh oh oh, he's ma-gic, you knooooooooow........."






What?

Maybe an opportunity to re-hash that old Phil Babb cover?;)

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[Big Ed]

Rehash? Rehash????

Outside, now.

[Ian K]

I obviously couldn't give a shite if they sacked McClaren now (although they won't,) but I still find it distasteful seeing a scumbag like Paul McCarthy on SS News this morning revelling in his misfortunes, and taking delight in collating all the other stories from the rest of the vermin currently circling him like sharks, especially the way he used the thoughts of a cunt like Woolnough as if he was some sort of all knowing finger on the pulse type of journalistic genius.
Where was their outrage when it became obvious he was going to get the job? Most of them said fuck all apart from a few who wanted Allardyce to get the job.:eek:
Even the most boneheaded knuckle dragging Ingurlund fanatic knew he wasn't the man for the job. The FA apparently didn't, and the press didn't take them to task for it.
Same the way they absolutely slaughtered Graham "The Turnip" Taylor way back when, but said nothing when he was about to be hired. I know a few on here seem to like him these days because he offers more to punditry than meaningless soundbites, but he was responsible for bringing so much shite to the English game at club level with the tactics his Watford team used, that it seemed to me to be inconcievable that he should be given the chance to ruin the national side in the same way. I don't think English football at club level has recovered form what he brought to the game to this day, the way it was copied and taken a stage further with thug like tactics and now we've got every other team playing like Bolton. But he wore a nice suit, spoke eloquently about the game (hence the decent levels of punditry now) which was enough to convince the suits at the FA. And apart from a couple of very lone voices, the journos said nothing 'till it was too late when they practically destroyed him.
The very fact the only real opposition to McClaren being hired was by those who wanted Fat Sam in the job demonstrates exactly why they are not fit to comment on the situation.
As ever, two faced hypocritical twats, who actually play a small part in the very situation they now denounce!
:mad:

[Steven - Dublin]

The Republic take payers that would never make the grade for England and mix them with some Irish players some good some ok, and have beaten some of the tiop sides in Europe. The thing theyhave and we don't is team spirit. They all fight for the same cause and are proud to wear the shirt. Too many England players are just goin through the motions.

You could say the same for the Irish team. Duff and Keane have been awful for a long time. O’Shea stopped showing any appetite for the game when he got his big contract at the mancs. When a lad from Waterford is voted as having the most bling in a team with Rio Ferdinand, you know something is wrong.

England and Ireland seem to be in the same boat at the moment with regard to managers, both have got gobshites who don’t know what they’re doing.

[nodge]

the problem is that it's dead windy in Britain and so it's hard to learn boss fancy footy skills.

Apparantly.



England struggles with many things that it exported to the rest of us around the world:rolleyes:

[Lerpwl Am Byth]

England aren't bad, but they're disgustingly overrated. To be honest I've never liked following England even though they should be my international team by default, because the obnoxiousness of the In-ger-land media and the Barmy Army "Two World Wars" Twat Brigade just saps all the fun out of it. Honestly, who enjoys watching an okayish side being lambasted for not winning every game 43-0? Who enjoys following a team which is expected (not just hoped) to win the World Cup or else? Who enjoys watching England's name being dragged through the mud every two years by the aforementioned media/hooligan scum, looking for a scapegoat for England's deserved exit from a major competition? At the moment so many would-be fans (including myself) are turned off by the dickhead culture which monopolises the England team. I wouldn't be surprised if the players were too.

[Kopite]

I obviously couldn't give a shite if they sacked McClaren now (although they won't,) but I still find it distasteful seeing a scumbag like Paul McCarthy on SS News this morning revelling in his misfortunes, and taking delight in collating all the other stories from the rest of the vermin currently circling him like sharks, especially the way he used the thoughts of a cunt like Woolnough as if he was some sort of all knowing finger on the pulse type of journalistic genius.
Where was their outrage when it became obvious he was going to get the job? Most of them said fuck all apart from a few who wanted Allardyce to get the job.:eek:
Even the most boneheaded knuckle dragging Ingurlund fanatic knew he wasn't the man for the job. The FA apparently didn't, and the press didn't take them to task for it.
Same the way they absolutely slaughtered Graham "The Turnip" Taylor way back when, but said nothing when he was about to be hired. I know a few on here seem to like him these days because he offers more to punditry than meaningless soundbites, but he was responsible for bringing so much shite to the English game at club level with the tactics his Watford team used, that it seemed to me to be inconcievable that he should be given the chance to ruin the national side in the same way. I don't think English football at club level has recovered form what he brought to the game to this day, the way it was copied and taken a stage further with thug like tactics and now we've got every other team playing like Bolton. But he wore a nice suit, spoke eloquently about the game (hence the decent levels of punditry now) which was enough to convince the suits at the FA. And apart from a couple of very lone voices, the journos said nothing 'till it was too late when they practically destroyed him.
The very fact the only real opposition to McClaren being hired was by those who wanted Fat Sam in the job demonstrates exactly why they are not fit to comment on the situation.
As ever, two faced hypocritical twats, who actually play a small part in the very situation they now denounce!
:mad:

Spot on Ian. The only way England are ever going to do something at international level is if they get a manager who doesn't let the likes of Woolnough, Harris and McCarthy pick the team for him.

It's a total joke that a load of fat hypocritical b*stards with no experience of football can pick the national team.

[adblock109er]

It's a total joke that a load of fat hypocritical b*stards with no experience of football can pick the national team.

Who said "Big Sam" ? ;)

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[Hampsy]

Paul Jewel it is then :o

[Kopite]

It's a total joke that a load of fat hypocritical b*stards with no experience of football can pick the national team.

Who said "Big Sam" ? ;)

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As Dave Usher said on TLW - "McLaren's doing a great job. If he keeps it up our players will have Summer 2008 off." ;)

[Steven - Dublin]

It's funny that the press spout on about not having enough talent or strength in dept. It's all such bollocks.

Try having Kevin Kilbane as a regular starter in your team!

[dicko1969]

is maybe...

was dont think so.

No European Cup wins in 51 attempts - Marseille were stripped of that title due to corrupt officials.

One Cup Winners Cup success - 95/96 - PSG over the powerhouses of Austrian football - Rapid Vienna.

Uefa Cup wins - Fuck all.

Take your French footie was fuckin great in the the late 80's/early 90's and stick it up your arse.

Is shit, was shit.

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How shit is French football now?

[Resurrection]

How shit is French football now?

Now that's perseverence.:D

[kitchentable]

How shit is French football now?

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/sport/graphics/2007/09/13/sfgfra113.jpg
http://soccernet-akamai.espn.go.com/design05/images/JonMC/October2007/lmcculloch-275.jpg

In comparison to Scottish football, for example ?

[Chop]

How shit is French football now?

Jack Charlton used to keep a little book of who'd upset him too. :rolleyes:

[lfc_all_the_way]

How shit is French football now?
I suggest you be more concerned about how pathetic your social life must be instead of worrying about this little grudge of yours. ;)

[fwd_fish]

The thing that gets me about England is that they try to play like a continental side. You can't just run around the Premier League at 100mph for a few weeks then instantly turn into Italy during the International break. In my opinion this is why England struggle against the lesser sides who are happy to let them have possession on the half-way line, just go for the fucking jugular. Against the better sides they have no option and are forced to pull their fingers out.

I also believe this is Liverpool's undoing on occasion, most recently against Marseilles, Birmingham, Pompey. If the opposition are up for it then they are going to have to work hard for a result, whether they like it or not.

[Evs]

Same old same old.

'Pedestrian' and 'Workmanlike' are the words that sum it up, and quite often a frightening lack of game intelligence displayed by players who ply their trade in 'The best League in the World'.

[Matt R]

But so utterly predictable that 7/1 for draw/England was a fucking steal.